InformaPirata @ informapirata @lemmy.world

Pirate Politics: #whistleblowing #digitalright #digitalsovereignty #copyrig

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2 yr. ago

Yes, of course 😅

Do you mean anything in particular with “optimal” management?

I mean this:

1. activitypub groups must be implemented according to the standards, without making incompatible implementations as Misskey did (and as Mastodon will probably do)
2. they must be displayed in an intuitive way as Lemmy does (and as Raccoon for Friendica does), that is, allowing you to see a screen with the list of topics only and not with groups of conversations that distract the user

Are you mostly talking about performance here?

Yes, it seems that Piefed has optimized the DB well

I honestly question the value of RSS feeds. It’s not something “normal” users use. It’s very much a techy thing. I don’t know any non-technical person who even knows what RSS is or has ever even heard of it.

I understand, I myself have completely ignored them; but they are the cleanest fruition protocol that currently exists and enhancing them is important (and today every software in the Fediverse does it, with little effort)

I plan to support applications and/or invitation trees (like lobste.rs uses).

Nice!

What features are you thinking of?

Nothing special, but for example with Mastodon I can check the IPs of the subscribers directly from the user interface and I can easily check if the same email has been used, without entering the DB. With Lemmy I can customize the subscription page to give instructions to users waiting for approval.

I think you need a WYSIWYG editor. That’s what normal people expect.

Good idea!

What is a circle in Friendica? I’m not familiar.

In Friendica (and Bonfire) a circle is a list of users to whom I can restrict the visibility of a message. Unfortunately Friendica does it with DFRN, Bonfire I don't know how it does it, but it's very interesting to limit some interactions to groups of friends or distinct groups based on the type of relationship (family, colleagues, etc)

I'm designing and planning the system to support filtering and a good search functionality. Everything is accessible via the backend API (otherwise how?).

Exactly like this

Finally I add that systems like Friendica and Bonfire allow you to manage both multiple accounts (a user can create secondary accounts) and, consequently, also accounts shared with other accounts (delegated accounts). For example, I can create an account for my newspaper and have it managed by fellow journalists who have a Friendica account on my server; or I can create a "Group" account and have it managed by the moderators of the group

Yeah but mastodon plan to support group

Yes, but he's been saying that for years...

I'm sure that when he implements groups he will do it in a way where they will be usable only by Mastodon users (a bit like Misskey did)

Honestly not really clear - what do you mean with “methodological distrust”? What method would be trustworthy? :)

Let me explain: after seeing that:

• the public prefers minimalist platforms like Mastodon and Pixelfed
• interesting projects carried out by very good developers, like Kbin, die easily
• Actvitypub is a protocol that does not define objects and actors very well and the difficulties of interaction of one app with another are discovered little by little
• it took ten years to develop a valid app for valid and long-lived software like Friendica, while other projects do not have an app yet
• every year new software of the fediverse is created that does not go anywhere

after seeing this, I do not want to get my hopes up... 😂😂😂

I feel it’s too early for that (again, don’t want to shout about it yet). But eventually I would definitely like to do that.

I understand. However, I can tell you what I personally consider fundamental in a Fediverse software:

• optimal management of Activitypub groups, both from an architectural and web graphics point of view: the forumverse (Lemmy, Piefed, Kbin, NodeBB, Friendica groups, Gup.pe groups are too important to be ignored)
• optimal management of the DB: Piefed has made great strides, while this remains the Achilles heel of Friendica
• ability to manage both images as attachments (in the "Notes" format) and inline images (in the "Article" and "Page" formats); inline images are essential to correctly interpret Friendica, Lemmy, Wordpress posts
• provide an RSS feed for users, groups and also for re-sharing (currently the feed for re-sharing is only for the Lemmy/Piefed communities; perhaps it will be in the next version of Friendica)
• a registration system that combines the features of Mastodon and Lemmy
• a moderation system compatible with that of Mastodon and Lemmy (maybe without doing as Pixelfed who created an additional application layer with a separate frontend...)
• if the system allows formatted posts, a formatting bar is necessary (Lemmy is a great model). Then we should figure out whether to use Markdown or a more precise simplified HTML (BBcode is not the best)
• creation and management of events compatible with Mobilizon and Gancio (Friendica does it)
• management of polls
• ability to follow threads (like Friendica) or the flow of microblogging (like Mastodon); Kbin/Mbin does it, but its ergonomics are dramatically confusing
• circle management (like those of Friendica)
• filter timelines based on: instances, type of software used, languages, lists/circles
• ability to clearly distinguish the timeline of remote users: pinned posts, posts, posts and replies, posts and reshares, favorites, media
• agile and efficient search functions like those of Mastodon, and advanced search functions like those of Friendica (which however work terribly)
• allow these functions to be called with the API

Extra options:

• automation possibilities similar to those of Friendica (automatic reshares) or those of the Mastofeed service (automatic reshares with the possibility of customizing the feed)
• development of a "trends", "news" and recommended users section, similar to that of Mastodon

As for the apps, I find that Raccoon for Friendica has introduced some ergonomic innovations in many ways points of view:

• provides an optimal view of Activitypub groups, even for Mastodon users
• allows you to browse posts from right to left, a feature that I find very useful and that not even the most famous social apps have (Gmail has them, or the apps for Lemmy and Pinterest)
• has a formatting bar in the message composition box
• has a nice preview function for formatted messages
• also manages the Mastodon APIs; this allows Mastodon users to use it and therefore also to advertise the Friendica software to Mastodon users

I totally understand the lack of faith

I hope it's clear that this is a "methodological distrust", but I'm rooting for you!

I believe in the mantra that “if someone else is doing something that you think you can do better, you should do it”.

Right!

Not sure what you mean with “damage” here

I'm referring to this: https://github.com/lemmyNet/lemmy/issues/5300

The reason why Mastodon doesn't show the text of Lemmy's initial posts is that they don't want to properly manage the Activitypub message flow. Do they do it out of inexperience? Out of laziness? Or do they do it to penalize Lemmy who (two years ago) was the only software capable of challenging for supremacy in the Fediverse? Friendica's "Posts with Title" (so-called "Pages") had the same problem: Friendica developers found an interesting way to solve the problem, namely adding an option to publish the post as a "Page" (Mastodon reads it as a title with a link to the original post) or as a "Note" (Mastodon reads it all). But this is a solution that violates the Activitypub standard and in fact Lemmy developers refused to do it because they are very proud (remember when I told you that software developers in the Fediverse are often in a bad mood? 😜).

but my plan is to support all kinds of ActivityPub content

it's a complicated goal, but not impossible

I find bonfire especially confusing. I can’t seem to grok what it is - is it a server, or a framework for a server, or an app?

I agree: I've often told their developers that they have a serious communication problem! What I don't like about Bonfire, however, is that it has so far seriously underestimated the importance of Activitypub groups.

I’m not sure what “Masters of the Fediverse” refers to

Gargron, Dansup, Evan Prodromou and longtime Friendica developers Hubzilla and Lemmy :-)

I appreciate your concern, but I am a professional software engineer

Great!

Rest assured, I have worked on very large projects professionally and built plenty of things in side projects

Even more… great! A Fediverse project really needs a team. One-man-show projects are too risky and emotionally draining

I particularly enjoy Rust (...) I am super confused about what Bonfire even is. All these reasons and other reasons are why I wanted to do my own project.

From what you say, it seems like you've really nailed the current Fediverse landscape

But rest assured that I am very familiar and comfortable with APIs

Yes, that puts my mind at ease!

I care about documentation

This makes me even more reassured! 🙂

If you have any concrete feedback on the UI and/or UX of Lemmy, Mastodon, Friendica or other apps...

Can I ask you to create a Lemmy community or a Friendica group? It would be nice to discuss in one place

The gup.pe groups are not Mastodon groups, but Activitypub groups that the immer.space project has created according to the standards To allow Mastodon users to easily create groups to use, which can be done by Friendica users and those of all link aggregator or forumverse platforms (from Lotide to NodeBB). Lemmy also supports them, although he does so in an unsatisfactory way.

the fact that it is in the roadmap is important, but it means that it is not there. Moreover, although piefed is a well-optimized platform, bringing the following of users will certainly entail a burden for the servers that host it And we will have to understand how much it is worth: one of the nice things about reddit like software is that you cannot follow other users 🤣

I don't think Piefed supports microblogging

Hi, I'd be interested in learning more about your project to create a new Fediverse software.

I want to be honest: I don't have much faith in the success of your project and I'll explain why.

1. very successful projects like Mastodon show great difficulty in improving, because they were born to be too simple, set up to do minimal microblogging, and then grew together with their user base;
2. very long-lived projects like Friendica, have had even more difficulty in improving because they were born to be very complex,
3. projects that have had a great marketing push like Pixelfed, continue to be (in my opinion) very modest;
4. forumverse (or threadverse) projects like Lemmy have received the main damage precisely from the incompatibility wanted by Mastodon against them;
5. new very interesting projects like Bonfire (the only software together with Friendica and Hubzilla to manage the "circles") are being developed with difficulty and are made up of many modules and above all do not have a decent app.
6. a brilliant developer like the one who created Kbin has created a wonderful software, but due to the enormous success it had all the Kbin instances went haywire, he was unable to keep up with the support requests and disappeared forever from circulation after a month of burnout
7. even the best software in the Fediverse is useless if there is no smartphone app and not all the software in the Fediverse can be managed with an app

Finally, the impression I had is that even among the most famous developers of the Fediverse there is a bit of ignorance about Activitypub, about other platforms and about how other developers have solved the same problems; also it seems that the "Masters of the Fediverse" are always in a bad mood and have less and less desire to learn new things (a praiseworthy exception is Matthias Pfefferle).

Creating a federated software is therefore not a very simple thing neither technically nor psychologically, but if you feel capable of doing it, perhaps it could be advisable to test yourself a bit:

• developing some web utilities, some plugins or less ambitious projects
• actively contributing to other existing projects (Friendica? Bonfire?)
• getting familiar with both the Mastodon API (which is an industry standard) and with the development and definition of APIs in general: when someone wants to write an app for your software, they will look at your code and in two minutes they will decide if it is worth doing!

Of course I didn't tell you these things to depress you, but only to point out some things that are often not foreseen: in reality I hope that your idea can become a fantastic project!

Good luck!

Aside from the fact that it's not true: politicians as such should not be put in a position to deanonymize anything, except through the intervention of the judiciary. Furthermore, this is not the case either: Andrea Stoppa is Elon Musk's Italian lobbyist and has already distinguished himself a couple of times for having threatened Italian politics if it does not enter into agreements with Starlink

Stroppa claims that he can read direct messages as a shareholder. If this is true, it is not only true for Italy but for the entire world

Of course, yes. Friendica Groups are special accounts (just like Lemmy communities, which are also activitypub groups) and, like all Friendica accounts, they can also be managed in a delegated manner by another profile of the same instance.

Friendica groups are very powerful tools, but always remember that Friendica Groups have a social interface that is less intuitive than that of Lemmy communities, which instead have the simplicity of forums

I agree.

Of course, today Friendica is the most suitable software for managing local communities, thanks to the support of Activitypub groups and event calendars, in addition to the possibility of managing accounts shared between multiple users.

However, it must be recognized that it is a cumbersome and counterintuitive interface. If you want to create a project of this kind based on Friends, you must plan for continuous support from the administrators.

At the moment I would not exclude Friendica, but I would also evaluate other solutions:

Lemmy

It is not a social network and users cannot follow other users but can only follow communities. However, it is probably the easiest software in the Fediverse and is made specifically for creating communities.

Mbin

The interface is still dramatically confusing, but users can also follow other users. If it were possible to modify the interface and make it more pleasant, it could be a great option.

I agree that it is an exceptional software, perhaps the best of the Fediverse, but it has a terrible name. The reason for this name was to mark a continuity with the first potentially federated social network, namely "identi.ca"

Moreover, despite the name, it is not a really friendly software, but presents several ergonomic complexities. Finally, I add that when I pronounce it with my dictation system, it is always transliterated as "free handicap", which is a very inclusive thing, but every time I have to correct it... 🤣

This is also why I decided to call my instance with a different name such as Poliverso, Too bad that a few months later Zuckerberg decided to launch his failed Metaverso project, which is why every time I have to explain that I did not call it that to parody the Metaverso 🤬

😈

It is a framework, but also a software already working and usable to create a social and some document sharing modules. And in the future it should also have something more like Kanban boards or a sort of marketplace

Thanks for the mention. This is a very interesting and informative page for all users of the fediverse

God likes voluntary suffering

👍🏼

You're right, sorry 🤦‍♂️ 🙇‍♂️ : the federated instance was threads.ruin.io, not threads.net

Yes, I think so too, but it is a choice that is up to the administrators because it can have dramatic repercussions on the maintenance of the server

Um... that's not what it looks like from the relevant page: https://sh.itjust.works/instances