Tlaib refuses to apologize for blaming Israel for Gaza hospital blast, attacks Biden
danhakimi @ danhakimi @kbin.social Posts 7Comments 431Joined 2 yr. ago
danhakimi @ danhakimi @kbin.social
Posts
7
Comments
431
Joined
2 yr. ago
Oh, because Hamas never lies or murders civilians!
/
Israel has shared a whole lot of its intelligence publicly. The explosion occurred in Gaza, wouldn't it be on Hamas to allow an investigation?
I think the primary issue is that “destroying Hamas” and “killing a hell of a lot of Palestinians” currently has a large overlap and the Israeli mindset of large amounts of collateral damage/death being acceptable is not shared by most of the rest of the world, even though they’re experiencing the same on a smaller mindset.
I'd argue it has very little" overlap in the minds of Israelis. I've heard three people in a very conservative small town in the US discuss the latter, which is absolutely three too many. The lion's share of Jews here—yes, Jews in a conservative town in the US—are very actively hoping for the best outcome possible for Palestinian civilians (even though we know they would never forgive Israel for destroying Hamas, even if it happened via magic bullet with no collateral damage).
Yes, a loud, dickish miniority of Israelis are calling for genocide, and yes, some of them will make it into the IDF, and do something horrible. That's terrifying. Yes, Netanyahu sucks, fuck Netanyahu—although he is not calling for genocide, although he's absolutely continued just about civilian-friendly policy the IDF ever had, he's moved farther and farther to the right of Israeli politics. But the IDF, as an organization, is really still doing its best to weed them out, to control them, and to protect civilians while it goes after Hamas.
This is why Israel is trying to evacuate civilians from Gaza City. But people call that ethnic cleansing... And meanwhile, Israel has evacuated its own civilians from the south and from the Lebanese border, but nobody said Hamas and Lebanon are engaged in ethnic cleansing. Why the fuck would you not evacuate people from a war zone?
Because Hamas likes to use people at human shields.
Israel warns Hamas what building it's going to strike, and when, and urges them to evacuate civilians from that building. And Hamas refuses. So Israel does its "roof knocking" if it thinks there's a chance there might still be civilians in a building that's firing rockets, trying to warn civilians again, and its critics say that "roof knocking" is somehow a war crime. They're trying their hardest not to kill civilians, and Hamas is trying its hardest to make them martyrs!
No other army warns its enemy of what building it's going to strike and when. That's not a thing armies do. They don't share intelligence, say "hey, I know you're firing your weapons from this exact building, please stop."
If Israel stopped fighting tomorrow, what do you think would happen?
Would it get its civilian hostages back?
Or would Hamas just set up another invasion and kill more civilians?
You mentioned biden having seen photos,
no, I didn't.
the Whitehouse walked back on those claims.
When?
I don’t have to see videos
"There's no evidence if I don't look at the evidence! I promise, the evidence doesn't exist, and I can prove it by declaring that I don't want to believe it exists."
but if you want me to believe it then a relatively independent 3rd party like the UN should have investigated it.
Then why haven't they?
Again with the islamaphobia, the west wouldn’t bad an eyelid if prisoners converted from Islam to Christianity or Judaism.
of course they would! what the fuck are you talking about? That's extremely evil!
For what it's worth, Jews try to talk you out of converting, we don't impose our religion on anybody at all. And people view missionaries as kind of evil even though they do lots of charitable work, because they're doing it all to creepily convert people. But taking little children as hostages and forcing them to change their beliefs is incredibly evil. They would not give the kids water otherwise! The kids do not want to be converted!
If somebody forced you to convert to a different religion, if they held you prisoner and denied you water until you agreed to start your conversion, and they posted video on social media bragging about how they made you do it, would you say "yeah, they treated me humanely?" Fuck no.
On the topic of children I think it’s much worse to force children to live in a large scale ghetto with the threat of death every day and deny them food and water.
Ah, so finally, you agree that Hamas are the villains.
Again none of that has been properly verified by a third party.
I gave you like 37 links, asshole, almost all of them from third parties. Nobody here is going to see all those links and think, "well, none of it has been verified by... uh... by..." and then get confused and just assume what you're saying makes any sense.
Both Israel and Hamas have been guilty of lying in the past and pushing propaganda and misinformation.
If you believe what western media is saying currently about the hospital
Convenient that you won't believe a single thing in a language you can read, huh?
Again you’re telling on yourself when you say indoctrination into Islam is bad.
Indocrtrinating prisoners into any belief system is bad. You don't own your hostages, they're fucking people. It's especially bad to indoctrinate children. How stupid are you?
On the other hand even if Egypt provided fuel to Palestine, Israel has been bombing the crossing so not even humanitarian aid is getting through.
a crossing has been bombed. There's no evidence whatsoever that Israel bombed it, nor any real reason to think Israel bombed it TBH. meanwhile, Hamas and other Arab nations frequently insist that nobody leave Gaza. Gee, I wonder why they're so quick to blame Israel...
And Egypt?
Again, they had fuel stores, Hamas stole the fuel.
All hostage deaths so far have been caused by Israeli bombing.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2023/10/09/israel-hamas-hostage-death/
500 civilians were just blown up in a hospital yesterday by Israel, do you not think they deserve their human rights? Or do you not consider them civilians?
Ugh. Have you been paying attention to any of the news at all, outside of extremists' Instagram stories?
OSINT analysts say it was a misfire.
Israel released drone footage and audio of Hamas agents from a wire tap, but I suppose you won't believe the video or audio.
US intelligence confirms the misfire theory as well, if you care. Plenty of detail in their assessment as well.
The only evidence I've seen that it wasn't a misfire, besides bare claims from Hamas that it was an Israeli air strike (that mysteriously didn't feel like leaving a crater), is an Al Jazeera journalist on Twitter theorizing that it might have been a heat-seeking anti-air missile that exploded a rocket in the air, and another heat-seeking missile that instead locked onto a generator or some other target near the hospital.
Do you even consider them to be human?
Do you? Or are they just pawns for you to use to try to demonize Israel?
All those claimes are unverified I’ll wait a couple of weeks before we get the actual truth from the Israeli state.
Let's pick the first one. Perhaps you don't think the Hamas video of Shani Louk being paraded around Gaza with bloody sweatpants counts as "verification," or this video of a passed-out hostage in her underwear but what about the forensic evidence of rape? Is that good enough for you? And of course, you're not going to give any credence to the multiple terrorist interrogations that confirmed they rape their captives, even babies, to "dirty" them so they won't get into heaven, or Netanyahu or Biden's accounts of the evidence they've seen, but certainly multiple eyewitness accounts of the nova festival count for something?
Before you answer: think, have you said, before, that we should believe women? Is denying claims of rape a regular habit of yours when the victims aren't Jewish? Do you need video footage of the rape occurring? Will you not believe it until you personally test a hostage with a rape kit?
By the way, it's hard to find these videos because, while Hamas uploaded plenty of them to social media, they did that as an act of terror, and most news media is not setting out to terrify you. Do you really want to see a baby's corpse burnt up on the ground?
All evidence including eye witness accounts from Israeli survivors reported that resistance fighters treated them humanely.
How dare you?
[what about parading Shani Louk around after hving raped her](the Hamas video of Shani Louk being paraded around Gaza with bloody sweatpants](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelWarVideoReport/comments/174r2ae/israeliwomanziptiedandwithbloodypants/))? What about the other hostage from above?
how about indoctrinating young children into Islam, is that humane treatment?
Again, this is all from videos Hamas released. We might have more accounts of how hostages were treated once they start releasing hostages or putting them in contact with the outside world.
They also refuse access to the Red Cross and don't allow hostages any means of communication with family, both of which are additional war crimes, even if the hostages weren't civilians—maybe they will, eventually, but seeing as they did not in the case of Gilad Shalit, for over five years, I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.
(I continue to debunk your misinformation below, no need to respond with more lies)
Israel supplied about half of Gaza's electricity. They do not need more than the other half to run a hospital and a desalination plant. Hamas has been stealing all the fuel it can to create rockets and support other offensive capabilities. They aren't struggling to produce enough electricity because they don't have the ability to produce enough electricity, they're struggling because Hamas is literally taking it from them.
From Wikipedia, their power comes from:
- Gaza's sole power plant which has a nominal rating of 60–140 MW (figures vary due to degree of operation and damage to the plant) which is reliant on diesel fuel imported via Israel,[33][34]
- 125 MW supplied by Israel Electric Corporation (IEC) via 10 power lines, and
- 27 MW supplied by Egypt.[35][36]
- plus various generators and things throughout Gaza.
Power plant use fossil fuels, but Hamas has been stealing the fuel they have reserved, so yes, the power plant is operating below capacity. If they wanted to run the hospital or the desalination plant as badly as they wanted to fire rockets vaguely in the direction of Israel, they would.
Way to act like a total dumbass who hasn't spent more than five minutes researching the situation and refuses to learn.
Palestinians have a right to risist occupation under the Geneva convention. You don’t get to tell them how they should resist a truely horrific situation.
Do the Geneva conventions say anything about raping teenage girls as a method of resistance? What do they say about burning babies as a method of resistance? What effect did you think Hamas was going for when they brought a couple hundred Israeli civilians back and didn't offer or suggest any terms for their release? Would you tie a family together so you could kill them together, if you were in their situation?
See, because here, I thought that nobody anywhere had the right to target and torture civilians, and that there was no conceivable way that would lead to peace or any concessions that might actually help Palestinian people. Here, I thought that terrorists committing terrorism with the intent of provoking war might be a bad thing, I guess I'm just biased into thinking that burning civilians alive is maybe not the greatest idea.
Israel’s collective punishment is objective a war crime by definition.
Only if you believe it's collective punishment. I've argued that cutting off electricity and similar actions are not intended as punishment at all, it's intended to reduce the rocket-making capabilities of Hamas and PIJ as they actively use every resource at their disposal to make and fire rockets.
but no simple carbs, no sugars. Got some carbs in on a technicality!
Well, your body needs carbs. And theoretically, you could do a low-carb diet, even a keto diet, but... keto is fucking dumb.
So, yes, in practice, you're gonna want at least some sugar in your diet.
See, the impracticality here is not that I'd be jonesing for sugar, it's that almost all processed food and most natural food has a little sugar in it, and also that our bodies literally require some simple carbohydrates to operate. Best case, you go on a hard keto overnight, and yes, the first week is terrible, because keto is a stupid fucking diet that doctors don't recommend because it sucks.
Yes, if I eat nothing but beef and saltines for a week, I'm going to feel like shit. That's not an addiction issue.
I never mentioned Hamas or said they also are acting in good faith, as that isnt the topic called into question.
Who are the "both parties" here? You said something about "both parties," do you remember that?
Israel is the one making the claims here, and the question is if they are making the claim in good faith or trying to justify their genocidal campaign against Palestine.
I think that'll be clear enough once the campaign is over and you barely see a blip in the population of Gaza, and they're really not too concerned with justifying anything on the world stage—the UN seems to be censuring them every damn day already.
Also: I don't think you really need an excuse to go rescue 150+ hostages when the hostage-takers don't have terms to give them back, I think it's very clear that Hamas is desperate for the invasion to happen. I'm the furthest thing from a war hawk, but I can't understand what people want to happen here, you want Netanyahu to fly to Qatar and beg this guy to give back the hostages? Offer for all 9.5 million Israelis to leave in the next week? There's no way Hamas is giving up those hostages, no way they're going to stop trying to kill every Jew on the planet. They're acting in good faith on their stated goals.
What more justification do you think Israel actually needs to invade Gaza?
I was trying very hard to understand what the fuck you were talking about, which is why I asked.
if you read your own comment again, you might just notice the sheer lack of grammatical sense.
If you want people to understand your point, try again.
Hamas's founding charter prohibits them from seeking peace or negotiating at all.
And they still have 150-200 hostages, mostly civilians.
The problem is that Hamas exists, and has complete political control over Gaza. There is nobody Israel can talk to, while Hamas is in power, and convince them to return the hostages, stop the rocket fire, etc.
This is not a problem that can be solved with words.
The only glimmer of hope, unfortunately, lays on the other side of a complete and total destruction of Hamas in Gaza.