bouh @ bouh @lemmy.world

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2 yr. ago

This thesis lacks logic. If a company already paid the office, people going into it or not changes absolutely nothing. And if the rent is going to end, you can save buttloads of money by forcing everyone at home.

I suspect the real estate prices is a fantasy. I suspect the real reason is management addiction to close supervision and their lack of trust.

When you respect people, you try to understand them. You are not doing that here. You are merely bitching, offended that I, a man, dared to criticise feminism.

I don't know where you live, but you're very unaware of the history of atheism, to say the least. And fascists these days are using the principle to bully the Muslims, and other religions suffer collateral damage. And I don't even talk about the past.

You are also mistaken if you think religions are the largest perpetrators of crimes and whatnot. We had two world war, the deadliest in human history, that weren't about religion at all. Most war in history weren't actually about religion. And in many war about religion, religion was merely a pretense.

BTW, did you know there is not more pedophilia in the Church than in the general population? So much for atheism not teaching lies and hatred I guess.

You blame religion as a scapegoat here.

The privileges are irrelevant to the problem. The problem is about how to date and seduce.

These interactions are extremely codified. The interesting part is that they are completely tied to culture, but almost all cultures show heavy patriarchal bias.

Depending in the culture it's tought in different ways. In our western culture, we have the example of our peers, movies and magazines.

It's not a matter of role but a matter of how to behave. And it's not about being nice and respectful. These are obvious to anyone who's not an asshole. But you are not attractive by being nice and respectful, and you're delusional if you think it's the case.

Incels topically missed the classes about how to do the dating and seducing. They weren't necessarily assholes before the trauma and conditioning. But when you are bad this game and you look for advices, the only answers you will find are conservative and machist. And that's the positive answers you will find.

Because too many reactions will be disdainful or shaming. This thread is an example of it. And from the people who pretend they are trying to fix the problems between men and women, it's a shame IMO.

I don't need the help of someone who doesn't want to understand.

And you know what? That's exactly the problem incels face: the only people trying to help them are like them, so mostly unable to help, and fascists, your enemy and mine.

But keep growing the ranks of your enemies. It's not like if fascism was at our doorsteps...

It's funny how your last sentence directly contradict your first one, don't you think?

I'm all for being decent, authentic and blablabla. But that's not the matter. Which shows how oblivious you are to the problem.

The problem is about dating and romantic interactions. Being decent, romantic and authentic is a worthless advice.

Or maybe try to understand the people around you instead of diabolizing them.

I feel for you. I'm in the same boat. I hope it'll get better for you.

Are you stupid or did you simply not read? Otherwise if you didn't understand something you can just ask instead of being an asshole.

you may not need a model. But many people, men or women, do need one. It's not a men things. Many women take models. And many problem of sex discrepancy in science for example, that is why there isn't more women in science, is supposed to be due to the lack of models.

So maybe you don't need a model, or maybe you had a model without realising it. But not everyone is like you.

I mean, "obsessing about maleness" when women magazines are what they are is quite ironic really.

I hope you realize that this very message of yours is asking men to man up and stop complaining. You are hereby promoting toxic masculinity.

Religion is unnecessary for blind faith. Fascists are blind believers. And these day a blind faith that all religions are toxic is developing, and it already is leading to zealotry and fanatism like any religion.

Maybe some people want romantic relationships.

Women fought to have the lives of men: a public, non romantic life, and that's an excellent thing.

Many men today want romantic relationships. How is this a bad thing? What kind of monster are you to say that a man should suck it up and forget any idea of intimacy or romantic relationship with a woman?

This is exactly the reason why these people turn incels or machists. And you're not worth more than them.

I don't blame feminism. I don't blame the left. I point at their shortcomings. You can't build a world of equality of you don't include men.

The future is together.

I hope you understand what happen when you hate yourself and you think everyone hates you and reject you?

Recent studies shows that it's concerning actually. The conservative culture makes a come back, more zealous than ever.

IMO this is because there is no alternative. Men are only told what they can't be, yet everything works for the way they used to be, which they can't anymore. This is a cultural problem to solve. Men and women need to build a new ideal man. Or like for women they need to accept more diversity for men, but that will not replace the lack of a proper model. In brief, we need a new kind of James bond that's not an asshole.

You are an idiot and you understand nothing of the problem. This is not about privileges, this is about how you reinvent relationships between men and women when the old model is obviously as toxic as it is obsolete.

Right now there is a bad model and no alternative. That is the problem. Feel free to ignore it and hate the privileged men though, but that will not solve anything.

This is only half the explanation. This patriarcal culture is the old model, but also the only one. The old model has been broken, but no new model exists. There are only two solutions out of this: a new male model, but you can hardly do that alone and no one cares about it currently ; or the feminists are wrong and the old model is actually good.

It's easy to fall in the trap of the second solution, and fascists are now making hard propaganda for it because they feast over hatred and a glorified past. Here they get to glorify an outdated culture, and to hate on a political opponent. This outdated culture is also about hating on a supposedly weak group, women. Win win for them. Hard loss for society.

This is far from the whole story. And in fact, this kind of disdain is part of the problem.

It is not linked to the past, it is a rejection trauma.

It is considered normal in our societies to be with someone. And as a man, you are culturally expected to be able to find a woman, and you are responsible for it. If you are a single man, it is because you choose it or because you're a failed man. The media like to talk about how you now have sex at 11 and how men have many relationships. When you're still virgin at 18, you already feel like a miserable failure. And the longer it goes, the harder it become. For some men they don't even need to be virgin, they may have had their first relationship by luck.

Then came #metoo. Many men discovered how hard women had it because of men. And this broke something: before, when you were bad with women, you merely had to man up. There was only one model for men, but it was there. After metoo, this model was broken. Now men are completely helpless.

This second point is reinforced politically by the fact that the left spend a lot of time to talk about women problems, but never talks about how men should be to be successful with women. You have feminist movements spreading hatred against all men, and this is also hard. When communication makes it like all men are assholes and can't behave with women, but no one tells you how you should do instead, you just feel attacked and helpless.

With that, these men are completely destroyed. Suicide is an option an this point. But hatred is another one. And fascism lives out of hatred. But fascism came later. First there was hatred as an exit of this situation for the desperate men: it's not their fault, it's women fault. That's only the only way you can go out of the misery. And with hatred, you can start to blame them for everything that's happening. You're single because the women are stupid and prefer the machist men. And feminism is a fraud.

And oh boy do fascists love this situation! Now they can easily radicalise you because you already did the job. Because the progressive left abandoned these men, the fascists gladly took the opportunity. And you now have a strategy and a market around this.

Not all men fall for this. But the pain and hardship is shared by many men nonetheless. The problem is societal: there is no counter-model to the one old toxic one that's been discarded by #metoo. You can't merely make your own model, because the point is to be attractive to women. Which means it actually is a problem for women too. But the progressists unfortunately forgot those men in their fights for the rights of the sexual minorities and the women, so these men are alone.

As a man, you no have 3 solutions : you are lucky enough to be with a woman already ; you embrace the toxic masculinity of the fascists ; or you're left alone in a no man's land of solitude and despair. The incels are the men going from the 3rd to the 2nd category.

Society is changing. The process will take time with highs and lows. We're getting into a low with this problem, and we'll go to a new high when we will have fixed it. But for now, incels will be the symptom of the failure to include men in feminism.