UsernameHere @ UsernameHere @lemmy.world

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Fetterman ran as progressive and ended up being republican after getting elected.

Sinema ran as progressive and ended up being republican after getting elected.

What you’re referring to isn’t sabotage, it’s democrats trying to vet candidates because progressives don’t.

What's your goal in confronting those who criticize the Democrats?

To point out that they are acting against their own best interest because of bad faith actors.

Trump and his cronies have been drowning in criticism since he first entered politics and he's able to shrug it off like a minor annoyance because he's done the work of building a strong base of support. He appeals to both the material and immaterial interests of his base and is responsive to their desires (to the dismay of anyone with any semblance of sanity).

Trump has not been under criticism by his own base… why do you think his base is called a cult. As a matter of fact Trump attacks anyone that criticizes him and won more votes his 2nd term because of it. Am I explaining this to you because you aren’t paying attention or are you arguing in bad faith?

Meanwhile the Democrats treat their base with contempt, never responding to their concerns, and abandoning them like so much garbage when they thought it was strategically prudent. They make themselves vulnerable to the kind of propaganda you're talking about by refusing to engage in even the slightest appeal to those who critique them from the left.

Democrats don’t waste time trying to pass legislation while they don’t have the seats to actually get it past. That would be performative time wasting. Even when that’s explained to leftists and it is proven there aren’t enough votes in Congress to get what they act what do they do? Do leftists try to appeal to more ideologies to get the votes they need? Nope, they attack the democrats on their own team, destroying any chances of getting the votes they need so they can get what leftists really want: something to complain about.

Doesn't matter, they set the boundaries for the party and they weren't cast out or reprimanded effectively, ergo they led the Democratic party and the Biden administration.

Democrats needed them to cooperate to get anything passed. If pressed too hard they would’ve switch republican and democrats would’ve gotten so little legislation passed that they would’ve been identical to the leftists that have never accomplished anything.

This is a foreign concept to leftists because leftists don’t get elected let alone get legislation passed. Or understand the importance of voting as you’re proving.

Working together to get a trusted candidate elected is also a foreign concept. That is why every progressive that gets elected ends up being a republican (Fetterman, Sinema, etc.).

Yet we still have leftists complaining that the DNC won’t have open primaries. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me more than once, I must be a leftists.

The DNC wins by trying to cater to as many voters as possible because that’s the job of a politician.

Leftists consistently lose by refusing to work with anyone outside of their ideology which is just a small fraction of the voters.

If you never considered that someone on the internet might be dumb, then you’re the dumb one. Sorry to be the one to tell ya.

You acknowledge the influence of billionaires and foreign governments on our political process, yet you still place the blame on progressives for criticizing Democrats for refusing to challenge those billionaires. Why?

Because most of the influence that billionaires have is from Citizen United and no amount of criticizing democrats will change that.

It has the opposite effect. All that criticism is just ammo for their other method of influence: propaganda.

Every criticism is amplified by swarms of fake accounts on social media and forums like this. Used to sow apathy in democratic voters.

So that criticism makes it harder for democrats to get elected, which makes the GOP stronger, which entrenches more policies like Citizens United. Taking us all several steps backwards.

The point of progressives is they don't support regressive policies

This is a fancy way of saying they let Trump win instead of voting in their own best interests.

Appealing to oligarchs and embracing the Feudal system kind of goes against their core tenants.

Are they achieving those tenants by letting Trump win?

Do we have voting holidays for the primaries? Oh we don't? So it's quite likely a lot of those progressive voters are busy at work?

Hell, one year it was fucking caucuses in my state, where you had to show up and hang out for hours deliberating.

You think democrats have enough seats to make a national holiday for the primaries?

Yeah because leftist criticized Biden more than Trump. With leftists as your allies you don’t need enemies. Makes sense why leftists aren’t winning any elections.

No goalpost was moved. You should learn the meaning of terms before you try to use them.

If the strategy of compromising with the right, appealing to moderate voters, and sucking up to corporate donors is so effective, why did it fail miserably at stopping the fall to fascism?

Because China/Russia/Iran/North Korea and the billionaire class wanted Trump to win and used their propaganda machines to influence the elections. Not to mention billionaires doing underhanded stuff like buying votes. All while progressives fed the propaganda machine with their constant criticism.

Failing miserably would describe progressives’ refusal to work with other ideologies and thus losing elections consistently.

Are you of the same mind as the Democratic leadership, that Kamala Harris ran a perfect campaign?

There is no such thing as a perfect campaign.

You're making the same mistake that right-wingers make, blaming the powerless for the actions of the powerful.

I’m blaming the people that tipped the scales and got Trump elected.

The Democrats’ strategy is to appeal to as many voters as possible and work with people you might not agree with. They have won the majority of elections since the 90s with this strategy and gotten some legislation passed.

Progressives’ strategy is to refuse to work with any other ideologies, criticize to an extent that spreads apathy and demand all or nothing. They have consistently lost because of this and gotten no legislation passed. But their strategy hasn’t changed…

However, there has to be a time when we fix our mistakes and right now is the BEST time to do that.

I agree with you there. The mistake we made was being critical to a point that got Trump elected.

What you're saying is we should stop critiquing them since they don't change, and their unwillingness to change and pointing that out sows voter apathy.

Nope, I’m saying Trump won this election because enough voters were apathetic and stayed home and the constant criticism from the left contributed to that.

The constant ‘not good enough’ criticisms are the reason we are worse off now with Trump.

We're literally in a thread about how they refuse to learn anything and we still have you here being like "critiquing them only makes it worse!" Yeah, when they always ignore the critique to suck from the same wealthy teats as the Republicans, it's hard for that not to create apathy.

We are in a thread about an opinion piece. Sorry to interrupt your echo chamber but I need to remind you that the critiquing is coming from progressives: a group that consistently loses elections even after winning primaries.

If progressives would actually learn something they would show up to vote in their own best interests instead of falling for the “Genocide Joe”, “DNC isn’t good enough so we get Trump”.

The fact of the matter is not enough voters are progressive and progressives aren’t willing to work with any other ideologies so they consistently lose elections.

No it just sows apathy and reduces voter turnout. But that seems to be the goal.

What makes you think I wanted to know if you’re interested in defending a claim?

Progressives will continue to lose because they think they don’t need to work with ideologies other than their own in a country where progressives are a small fraction of the population.

‘Don’t try to appeal to moderate voters! Why can’t we win elections?!’

‘Don’t compromise with republicans to get the votes needed to pass legislation! Why can’t we get legislation passed?!’

‘Is is us progressives that are to blame for our lack of progress? No it is the voters that are wrong!’

‘We are very smart’

After all, you want two identical fascist parties.

“bOtH sIdEs R sAmE”

Nope, a long time has past since the 90s. That’s the point. The DNC has won the majority of elections for a long time. Proving they know how to win, unlike progressives.

Democrats have won the majority of the elections since the 90s using this strategy.

How many elections have progressives won?

There were a lot of black/female/indian democrat voters offended that anyone would even consider a primary instead of going with Vice President Harris. All those votes would’ve been lost.

She lost to Trump because that’s what China/Russia/Iran/North Korea and the billionaire class wanted. Whether intentional or not you’re just helping them out by scapegoating the DNC.

I’m not saying what is good/bad. I’m saying what wins/loses. You can be good and lose in the case of progressives. But then you can’t claim you know how to win better than the DNC.