Tinidril @ Tinidril @midwest.social

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2 yr. ago

Don't make the mistake of thinking this is a legitimate implementation of such a system. It will absolutely be intentionally flawed in ways that allow the disenfranchisement of millions of Americans citizens. That's 100% what always happens with Republican initiatives to "protect" elections. It will be made trivial to "accidentally" remove legitimate voter registrations, and a labyrinthian bureaucratic process to correct them.

That's kind of my point. It's turtles all the way down.

Are you referring to the three ancient Democratic House members that died in office? It does seem a little vindictive to blame them, but I guess it wouldn't be unreasonable. It might make more sense to blame the Democratic voters who keep renominating these decrepit fucks.

The Natives "moved" to Texas to steal it from the previous group of natives.

I can't believe I'm playing defense for MTG but, voting for the bill in the House was a low risk action because there was absolute certainty that there would have to be back and forth with the Senate. The vote in the house was basically a vote to get the process started in the Senate.

The bill as a whole though is still absolute shit stuffed with one horror after another. I do hold everyone who voted for it responsible for that. I just don't think it's a big deal that she voted for some specific aspects that she later opposed. That's just how the process of Omnibus bills works.

I don't care what your beliefs are. If you think the progressive movement is at a point where we have worry about oppressing the neoliberals, you have a screw loose and can only hurt us.

Do you not already know what happens when after a regime change the new one decides to do all the fucked up shit the last one did, but to the opposite group of people?

And... there it is. That statement betrays exactly what you think of progressives and socialists.

What you don't get, or don't want to get, is that there are three political philosophies at play here, and every one of them has it's radicals and moderates. There is conservatism, neoliberalism, and progressivism.

You think neoliberalism is defined as the "center" between conservatives and progressives, but it's absolutely just as possible to be a radical neoliberal as a radical progressive. In fact, the people running the Democratic party are hardcore radical neoliberals. They pretend to be conservative or progressive when it suits them, but they are neoliberal to the core. They are just as capable of doing "all the fucked up shit" to their opposition, and have in fact been doing it consistently for 50 years now.

Progressives get a the tip of a toe in the door, and out you come to sound the alarm that we're going to take over the place and, what, start deporting Republicans?

You aren't the centrist you think you are, and you are just another enemy to progressives.

More's the pity.

I did what again? By voting for Harris? I mean maybe I did, but I wouldn't assume she would have been that bad.

By your own admission you have given up. You aren't fighting for anything so, your motivations are clearly on venting. Mine aren't.

My intent is to have the best candidate possible to defeat whatever clown the Republicans put up in 2028. I want the Harris campaign to be seen for what it was, the last gasp of failed neoliberal politics. If it's not, then people will believe the same old story that only a "centrist" can beat a Republican. If Democratic voters buy that again, then maybe we will be done. Even then, I won't be giving up.

It's clear that you think this started with Trump, but it didn't. I've been fighting this fight since GWB was president. Over and over Democratic voters bought the establishment's lies. Trump and MAGA are the result, not the cause. Fuck anyone giving the establishment another excuse for their failure.

That's not even close to being a reasonable interpretation of anything I've said.

Saying Biden was worse than Trump on Gaza is batshit.

Saying Biden was worse than Trump on Gaza is batshit.

I said arguably worse. Trump's rhetoric is certainly worse. He doesn't even pretend to give a shit about Palestinian lives. On the other hand, he doesn't give a shit about Israeli lives either. Because of that, and his dream of a piece prize, he might actually stumble into a better outcome.

One of the very first things Trump did after being sworn in was release all the holds Biden placed on arms to Israel.

Biden put temporary holds on a few weapons, and they were mostly withdrawn before Trump even took office. At the same time, Biden was signing new arms deals to give them more weapons. Also, you never would have seen Biden negotiating behind Israel's back with Iran.

and protest non-voting

What makes you think those votes would have all gone to Harris? Where is your evidence that the non-votes were specifically intended to protest and not just the usual result of a worn out and disengaged public? The 2020 election was high turnout and 2024 was a regression to the mean. I'm sure some people stayed home in protest, but if they were, as you say, radicalized, I think they would have gone third party.

Not voting is stupid. Voting 3rd party right now is stupid.

Did I say otherwise? But you know what else is stupid? Trying to rally voters by calling them stupid. Remember that day your mom refused to buy you the twinkies at the store and you called her stupid? Did you get the twinkies?

Destroying the far-right is more urgent than building the far-left.

The establishment has been saying exactly that forever, and look where that got us. That's a shortcut to nowhere. You can't beat fascism with neoliberalism. It's failing everywhere in the world that it's being tried.

If you want to back a leftist, have them infiltrate one of the parties so they can be part of the binary choice.

Did you see me advocate an outside strategy. I bet you didn't. Know why you didn't? Go ahead, guess.

The people who backed Cuomo are better than the ones who back MAGA.

It's not about moral judgements, it's about cause and effect. The people who backed Cuomo caused MAGA.

What the actual fuck? Sorry, I'm not a voice in your head. I don't even think thats an actual sentence.

You want to give up, then give up. That's what Harris did too, so it fits. I'll stand with the fighters.

I explicitly said that I voted for Harris. Of course Harris would be better than Trump, in a myriad of ways. Why the fuck do you think you have to explain that to me?

Biden not stepping down isn't a coincidence. It was a direct result of the entitlement of neoliberal politicians and the absolute disregard they have for the voters.

I'm not as certain of the overthrow of our election system as you are. Until the election doesn't happen, I will act like it will. If it does happen, will you even remember how badly you got it wrong? I doubt it. You'll probably go back to lecturing voters and thinking that's how to win elections.

Did you see the same campaign I did? Of course she failed us.

What exactly is the point of blaming voters anyways? Should we nominate better voters in 2028? Blaming the voters in politics is tantamount to giving up.

Yes, American voters and, by extension, American culture has massively deteriorated. You won't get any disagreement from me there. But then you have to wonder how we got this way, and neoliberalism is at the core of it. Neoliberalism is the soil for fascism, and the current Democratic establishment will never stop doubling down on neoliberalism.

They couldn't even manage a fascist parade.

Lemmings do determine DNC policy. We determined policy when we nominated Biden in 2020. I want to make sure the lemmings don't do the same kind of thing in 2028.

The "both sides" thing is generally idiotic, but Gaza is not the ground I would choose to make that argument. Biden was arguably worse on Gaza, even as he pretended to give a shit about Palestinians. You do know it came out that all that pressure he said he was putting on Netanyahu was bullshit, right?

Third parties weren't even a factor in this election. Harris would have needed almost every single third party vote (including the libertarians) to win the popular vote, and that wouldn't have gotten her the electoral college.

It's time for the lemmings to call the establishment to account. This is the time when we prepare for 2028, and we need to do everything we can to destroy the people driving the party into the ground. The people who backed Cuomo in New York are not going to save us.

Who said I didn't vote? I did vote. I voted for Harris, and she failed us. I was ready to get on the Kamala train, then watched day by day as she threw the election away.

Gosh, with your attitude I just don't get why Democrats don't attract more voters.

Yeah, just look at that idiot in charge. Don't think about the idiots who lost an election to him.

What guard did we try to change? It was still Pelosi, Schumer, and Kamala Harris who literally ran on not changing anything from the Biden administration. There was no changing of the guard, and yeah, look what happened. Harris ran the perfect establishment campaign, we lost, and the establishment learned nothing.

I voted for Harris. She let us down, not the other way around. Fuck letting them do it again. Even if they got elected, they aren't up to governing this nation as it is now. They don't have the backbone, the imagination, or the leadership to fix what they allowed Trump to do in this country.

Republicans inspire anger and lead people to hate. Democrats inspire nothing and lead people nowhere. Then Democrats are surprised when they can't win because people are angry and hateful. They drove the party and this country into the ground.