SuddenlyBlowGreen @ SuddenlyBlowGreen @lemmy.world

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Because that's not relevant to the discussion.

It is relevant to the discussion. Because it shows that the old testament thinks homosexuality is bad, which you deny.

So, what is punishment for having sex with an animal? A slave is like an animal. It has been made unclean and unfit.

You're not really making the case for a loving god and bible here.

What you have made the case for however, is that the bible views homosexuals as animals, as lesser than people.

All the while, you claim that the bible doesn't save negative things about homosexuality.

YHWH/God is not arbitrary, I think there's a good chance we can agree on that.

If you think so, you clearly haven't read the bible, at all.

So, YHWH placed a specific context on these rulings and edicts... the preservation of the Israelites, YHWH's own people, during their wanderings after exodus from Egypt.

And it was paramount that all homosexuals be killed, to safeguard these wanderings.

You must consider the original intended purpose of the command within it's own context, you cannot remove it from that context without fundamentally changing both it's meaning and purpose, which is what modern Christianity has done.

You can shift and twist the context all you like, it's there clear as day: the bible says a lot of negative things about homosexuals.

Paul was a rabbi of the Pharisaic school, of which Jesus/Yeshua was also a member. His statements do not modify or supercede the Torah or the teachings of Jesus, but merely reiterate them.

Reiterate them? So the parts about slavery being completely ok and fine is jesus' teaching reiterated?

Good to know. Everybody sets him up as a swell guy and a hippy, but it turns out he supports slavery.

And note that he did not demand that anyone engaging in those things be "put to death" - but to change their ways.

Which again, show that homosexuality was put in a negative light. According to the bible, it's a sin that must be changed.

It explicitly says homosexuals cannot get into heaven, after all.

remember this one and contemplate what it means for all other teaching before or after Yeshua's ministry.

Thatfully, I don't have to go to ministrations or read of bigoted supernatural tales to delude myself into thinking I'm a good man, so I'll skip that, thanks.

For the Catholic Church to even be publicly willing to discuss such matters (especially things like LGBTQ issues and female ordainment), well, even I’ll admit that something decent may come from this in the end, even if it’s not all what decent society may want (or demand).

Nothing will come from this.

It's not a "huh, maybe we were doing something wrong, maybe we should change" meeting, it's a "Oh, the peasants are getting uppity again, quick, say that were graciously considering human rights or something to calm them down" meeting.

It's the KKK holding a meeting considering on whether to allow black people to join.

Hmm, what was very powerful in the 1700s, that lost so much power nowadays...

It does.

You mentioned both the Old and Testaments... since Paul's greek statement in the "New Testament" (“male-bedder”) follows the phrasing of the Old (LXX), I'll explain that one (because Paul's word choice means he was citing Deuteronomy).

If Paul cities the old testament you explained, then him not using "as with a women" - since scripture doesn't waste words - means these are two different (negative) statements about homosexuality.

Leviticus 18:22 NKJV: "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination."

What you left out, is the part where it says both shall be killed.

Men can be property, but they are not to be made subservient to their owners in the same way women are.

Using modern terminology, the way we'd phrase Leviticus 18:22 is "You may not rape your male slaves as you do with your female slaves."

Ok, so in that case, what's the male slave to do?

He cannot disobey his master, as the bible tells that he should always obey him.

But, if he is raped, he will be killed.

That doesn't seem very fair, or even neutral about homosexuality. It's negative.

But these writings were not made us - they were written by and for ancient ethnic and religious Jews living thousands and thousands of years ago, raised in cultures that would be alien and barbaric to us now.

In that case, what about the part in the new testament?

That was supposedly written for us, right? It doesn't use the "as with a woman" phrasing.

Yet it also clearly has negative things to say about homosexuality.

it does not condemn homosexuality in any way

That's not true though.

It condemns homosexuality both in the old and new testaments.

So the woman was pregnant?

What birth defects would there be in this case?

How so? Russia famously treats LGBTQ people so well. /s

So some drivers are not installed like I said

No, you said:

First of all they're going to have to release a distro which actually has, shock horror, proprietary drivers installed on it, because your average user isn't going to understand how to install them.

You're moving the goalposts.

A lot of educated people stop thinking the second they see a study that confirms what they believe. It is the anthesis of what science is supposed to be, examined constantly.

Sure, that happens. But since it's science, there's evidence, with which you can show people like that that they are wrong. That doesn't exists with religions.

When Ignaz Semmelweis showed a mountain of evidence that washing your hands prevented passing infections to others he was ostracized by the medical community

And since it's like a religion, his warnings were never heeded as you cannot question religious rules. And so, still today, doctors don't wash their hands.

Oh wait...

Since it's science, the rules can be questioned and changed if they are not correct.

Of course not, that would be nonsense.

Well then, there you have the reason schools keep it hidden.

I can tell you I’ve seen a massive shift in how science is seemingly manipulated and misrepresented to push political or idealogical ideas.

Which ideas would those be?

Compromises are useful when you want something. When your side is about to win you don’t blow up the organization unless you have a mental problem.

Exactly. Like when the north was about to win the civil war, Lincoln allowed some slavery to be legal.

Or when the allies were on the brink of victory, they went and allowed some concentraition camps to open again.

Also, folding and voting against human rights to keep your hand on some property doesn't sound like winning to me.

Maybe you meant the Charlie Sheen kind of "winning"?

Also, from what I can tell the gay bishops voted for the compromise. If they thought it was the right way to handle it, I am not going to shame them for it.

I will! Fuck them, it was a shit decision, good job appeasing the regressives, well done guys.

Most abusers do not wait for some specific reason to start abusing. I would be interested to see data how many abused LGBT kids were never abused before they came out to their parents.

Are you claiming children haven't been abused because their parents found out they were LGBTQ?

This might be splitting hairs a bit, but it basically is what happened.

Oh yeah, I remember when MLK said "While we wanted equal rights, me must acquiesce that we shouldn't get all the rights white people have in order to appease those against us."

Big fan of moderates, MLK was. Or so I heard.

That seems to be more of a kick-the-can vote to allow the more conservative churches time to leave.

"We only voted against human rights so the people who are against those human rights can leave with all their money and property intact, we promise!"

Man, you're making these "progressive" churches sound wonderful!

It is unfortunate that you think so, there is a lot of wisdom in the various world religions.

What wisdom is in world religions that couldn't be found elsewhere without all the murdery baggage?

Francis has made it clear that he is willing to face the issue head-on now that he has the power.

I especially liked it when he faced it head-on in Chile by saying all the allegations were "calumny".

Trans community lost some PR ground when it came out that schools were intentionally hiding gender transitions from parents.

Probably because they want to avoid the children getting abused at home, or worse

If you want to make progress on trans issues, I would suggest that the LGBT community take a transitional stance and then move again in the future, rather than losing their minds because they cannot force the whole population to share their views all at once.

Hmm, I wonder what would happen in we'd apply this to past social issues...

"If you want to make progress on civil rights issues, I would suggest that the african-american community take a transitional stance and then move again in the future, rather than losing their minds because they cannot force the whole population to share their views all at once."

"If you want to make progress on suffrage issues, I would suggest that women take a transitional stance and then move again in the future, rather than losing their minds because they cannot force the whole population to share their views all at once."

You dropped this:

/s

About LGBT, there isn’t a single place in Bible, old or new testament where isn’t put in a positive light

That's just simple not true.

In the old testament it says that all homosexuals must be killed, and in the new testament that homosexuals cannot go to heaven.

How is that a positive light?