SpaceCowboy @ SpaceCowboy @lemmy.ca

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2 yr. ago

Are you not aware of the treaty? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Comprehensive_Plan_of_Action

Or are you not aware that Obama won the Noble Peace Prize?

Or maybe you just don't have a sense of humour so you think a joke about Obama getting the Nobel Prize before doing the treaty is "mental gymnastics"?

You literally just posted paragraphs of bold text with wild and generalizing claims about Israel and Israeli people. Someone needs to be ashamed of themselves here, and maybe exercise a little self awareness?

I am clearly talking about the Ayatollah regime's officially stated goals, not the Iranian people. I'm also mentioning the opportunity for Iranians to have a better government. It's obviously up to the Iranian people if they want a better government, I think we all know at this point that regime change has to come from within a country.

As someone on the left

Since you're someone on the left, you you seemed to have picked up the nasty habit of feeling entitled to speak on behalf of other people. If you're not Iranian please don't act like you know what's best for them. That's a very "white man's burden" mentality that's become prevalent in the left.

The oppressive authoritarian regime that's ruling over Iran has been weakened. It's up to the Iranian people what they want to do next. It's not up to me or you.

Yes lemmy indeed has a bit of a Nazi bar problem, with all the antisemitism that gets posted here unchallenged.

Well since we're just putting random words together, two can play at that game! Netanyahu is a Hamas product! Netanyahu wouldn't be Prime Minister if it weren't for Hamas! Switcharoo, I win!

It's always a bad thing. It's a bad thing that civilians die just because they happen to live in a building that a terrorist is firing at soldiers from. It's also bad when soldiers die. In fact, it's bad when anyone dies.

War is just an all around bad thing it seems. Holding hostages is also a bad thing. Maybe Hamas should release the hostages so the war can end?

Donald Trump is an incompetent idiot. Doesn't mean he's not a threat to anyone.

Meanwhile Iran is always promising to ethnically cleanse Jews from the Middle East constantly chanting "death to Israel" and they call what they do "Operation True Promise" when targeting civilian population centers while saying to Israeli civilians "Either you must choose 'gradual death' in hellish life in shelters or save your lives from the 24-hour missile rain and flee as soon as possible from the lands usurped by your ancestors, so that you may survive." I guess that's a sign of a healthy society?

There's also Operation Rising Lion. Iran's flag used to have a Lion on it. Israel doesn't seem to want to destroy Iran unlike Iran's "True Promise" to wipe Israel off the map. But you can take "Rising Lion" to mean they want Iran to rise from being a country run by authoritarian religious nutjobs.

Under the rules of war, no. The rules of war does not consider civilians casualties a crime if they happen while targeting military or military support, like weapons manufacturing.

If it were, then you could just fire missiles at your enemies from the tops of apartment buildings and they couldn't do anything about it. Yeah Hamas did do that and did make claims of war crimes whenever they got hit, but not actually a war crime. Because if it were it would encourage every military in the world to use human shields and every war becomes as horrible as the war in Gaza.

• W. Bush says Iran is in Axis of Evil bullshit basically telling Iran "you're next!" while invading Iraq. Iran starts a nuclear program in response.
• Obama fixed things by making a treaty with Iran, and got the Nobel Peace Prize (though not in that order which was a bit weird, but whatever)
• Trump cancels that treaty and assassinates an Iranian General
• Biden tries to restore the Obama treaty, but Iran doesn't trust the US (wonder why?). So no treaty, but also no war with Iran.
• Trump gets in again drops some really big bombs on Iran

"BOTH SIDES!" say both the MAGAs and leftists in unison.

You know the old saying, when life gives you oranges... NO TEENS IN THE PARK!

It's talks about Russia and Iran doing some bad things and doing some sanctions. I'm not sure what you're getting at with this?

Sorry but I can't trust your judgement on matters concerning genocide when you believe massacring villages is a legitimate act.

Unwilling to have discussion indicates you're afraid you might be wrong about things and discussion may bring that to light.

People who have thought through their positions aren't afraid to discuss them. I could be wrong about some things, but if that's the case then and a discussion brings that out, I can change my position, and then I hold stronger positions on issues.

Propagandists that are just repeating slogans are afraid to discuss the topics they supposedly care about passionately. If discussions bring to light their slogans are wrong, then that decreases their standing within their movement which is just a tribal group. The goal of the propagandist isn't to further a cause it's only to show loyalty to the tribe and increase their standing.

So go ahead and throw insults at me to prove your loyalty to the tribe. It only proves you're incapable of growing your movement because you're incapable of having a rational discussion. If you're constantly promoting feelings of hatred to impress the political group you're in, consider the possibility that you might be in a hate group.

So Iran is complicit in massacring villages and taking hostages on October 7. Do you think masscring villages is not an act of war?

Are you, by any chance, trying to somehow equate Israeli genocidal violence to Palestinian militant defence against a genocidal occupying force?

No I don't equate massacring entire villages(what Hamas did) with taking military action to free hostages taken by terrorists (what Israel is doing).

And this is a good thing. Declarations of war makes war a legitimate thing. In the past it was a noble and goodly thing to do, all of the correct paperwork has been submitted and so now it's good and proper for you to go over there and kill those people that have different uniforms.

Also a declaration of war means going from 0 to 100 on everything. There's no escalation and also no de-escalation. Probably not a good thing to instantly go 0 to 100 once nuclear weapons became a thing.

People often decry how war is no longer a legitimate thing because there's no longer declarations of war. The reality is, war never was a legitimate thing. Declarations of war were just powerful people making the act of sending people out to kill and be killed seem legitimate.

Yes, the "special operations" and "coalitions of the willing" stuff is bullshit. But so were declarations of war. It's better you think about whether a military action is actually needed rather than believing a war is proper simply because the people in power did the paperwork correctly.

Be careful, even suggesting that Israel isn't committing genocide might get you banned from communities on lemmy.

To give a better idea of how Iran wants to eliminate Israel (the country):

"Either you must choose 'gradual death' in hellish life in shelters or save your lives from the 24-hour missile rain and flee as soon as possible from the lands usurped by your ancestors, so that you may survive." - IRGC Statement https://iranwire.com/en/news/142321-irgc-says-it-fired-2000-kilometer-range-missiles-at-israel/

Iran's goal is to make Israelis flee from the lands "usurped by your ancestors". So they recognize that Jewish people in Israel were born there, and they want to force them to leave their lands. So... ethnic cleansing.

There have been attempts by Israel in the past to have a peace plan with Palestine. Land for Peace. And remember Israel unilaterally withdrew both the military and their settlements from Gaza. There was a brief time when we were all hopeful as Gaza was free from Israeli occupation. They could trade with Europe easily and become a place of peace and prosperity. Once that happened we could pressure Israel to withdraw from the West Bank as there's no way they could claim that occupying it was for security anymore. There was a clear path opened towards a free Palestinian state.

Then Hamas took power with a plurality of the vote and it all went to shit. It's going to very difficult to convince Israel that ending the occupation will improve security for their people after what happened on October 7. But who knows, maybe a group of Palestinians that are tired of constant war might be able to get power and change things.

I feel like most Israelis want peace, just they also don't want to be murdered in their sleep by a Hamas terrorist. I don't think it's a land thing, though obviously in a democracy different politcal parties will have different agendas. Israel has shown a willingness in the past to trade land for peace. It's more of a problem of Israelis not trusting Palestinians. And October 7 means that it will probably be at least a generation and a change in Palestinian leadership before Israelis can trust Palestinians on a land for peace kind of deal. But that change in leadership has to come from within. There also needs to be a change in leadership in Israel, but that's kind of automatic since Israel is a democracy.

The last time Israel gave up ground, Palestinians voted for Hamas. It seems Israel conceding territory is seen as a sign of weakness by too many Palestinians. Maybe the next generation will think differently. At least I hope.

Is Iran responsible for what Hamas does with the weapons and munitions they supply them?

Is the US responsible for what Israel does with the weapons and munitions they supply them?

Do you have the same answer for both of these questions?

Something we can't know at the moment. Their state media has taken some hits, so it's possible they lost capabilities in monitoring internet traffic.

Hamas is also an Iranian proxy. They attacked Israel in a very big way.

Not menitioning the events of October 7 and the fact that Hamas is still holding Israelis hostage is a rather glaring omission there.

Iran has stated many times their goal to wipe Israel off the map. Is that not them saying they only want their "chosen people" living in the area? So under your definition of genocide, Iran is committing a genocide. If the fact that Israel was attacked on October 7 is irrelevant, then the fact that Israel attacked Iran in this iteration of hostilities between them is also irrelevant. Iran has the officially stated goal of wiping Israel off the map, Iran has killed Israeli civilians, therefore Iran has committed genocide (according your definition of it).