Rediphile @ Rediphile @lemmy.ca

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Joined

2 yr. ago

I'm more than happy to not patronize the restaurant if I find the total price is unreasonable and I'm not willing to pay it. Unfortunately, I am only able to do so if someone tells me the total price of the cheeseburger. Why are you so unwilling? This is the third time I've tried to get an answer now.

And I honestly don't think I've ever in my life been to a restaurant where the server made $2.13 or lower, but I have no way of knowing that with certainty. In any case, I'd rather not participate in a system that 'is bad and shouldn't exist' and as you pointed out is discriminatory/racist. And since it's completely optional, the most ethical option for me to take seems the only one that does not encourage the system at all.

But hey, you might just be morally superior to me. Casinos, after all, provide an important and definitely non-exploitative service to society. And those 'customers' definitely owe you a tip.

That all seems a bit much compared to doordash just raising their service fee in order to pay their contractors enough to be willing to deliver orders in this new tipless world, but ok. I appreciate your attempt at answering the question nonetheless. Although it is pretty odd you consider a stable wage, hours and healthcare benefits to be a bad thing. And I still don't understand why employees are willing to piss in bottles to meet quotas and stuff. I wouldn't agree to a job like that. You probably wouldn't either. Especially for the lower pay you described. Unless of course the stability and healthcare benefits made up for it all...in which case it would be a better deal than before.

I'd just like to know the price of a '$10' cheeseburger so I can make an informed decision. You're refusal to state the actual price tells me everything I need to know.

And I'm not buying any of the servers labor, I'm buying a cheeseburger. The only business relationship I have here is between me and the business owner selling cheeseburgers. The only reason I came here is that I'm hungry for a delicious cheeseburger.

Are you really arguing about this from a device produced within a system where people in sweatshops get paid far less than servers and without even any possibility of tips? You must see the irony a bit...or did you somehow tip the sweatshop kids when you bought your phone/laptop? Or did you assume the entire chain of people who produced the device are paid fairly? I mean, sure, maybe they are (as unlikely as that is). But it's going to take a whole lot of research to determine that or even come close to determining.

More than anything, I'd really just like to know how much currency I need to exchange for one cheeseburger listed on the menu for $10... but since the menu can't be trusted. I'm asking, please, how much is that cheeseburger?

It doesn't require any ballot lol. People are just tipping less and less over time and the practice is dying.

I never consented to any of it. And no, I don't know what the servers make. I only know what I made as one at a specific restaurant like 15 years ago. My uncertainty is even more pronounced when I'm on vacation in an area I've never worked as a server.

Can you please just let me know the actual price so I can agree to pay it or not. I just want all the information so I can make a decision. How much is the cheeseburger that says $10 on the menu? Ffs I'm hungry.

But no, it's like you're afraid to give an actual price because you don't want to risk limiting the hypothetical maximum you can scam out of some sucker.

Lol the older brother is just an idiot. He isn't 'forced' to do anything at all. The business arrangement makes no sense unless the little brother being the salesman adds value somehow.

I am an older brother and I assure you if long ago my younger brother was like "hey you need to shovel the neighbors driveway for $3'' I'd be like "lol, no, go give that nice man back his money. If you want to be my salesman, I need the guarantee of $10 in my pocket minimum. If you can find a guy who pays $11, by all means keep the dollar. Oh, also I get any tips provided after the job."

Do you actually think any older brother is going to just keep shoveling driveways for $3 when he thinks he deserves $10?

It's not a loophole or predatory, it's just something the people doing these one-off job knowingly agreed to. I myself certainly agreed to it years back each and every time I accepted another order. The key was to not agree to orders that don't make any fucking sense. It was all optional.

I don't know how we could ever regulate away the issue of people who decide not to act in their own best interest. Probably best to focus on education or something?

What do you suppose would happen if everyone all at once just stopped tipping and kept using the service? Like I'm serious, what do you actually think would happen?

So tipping is a byproduct of Americans being idiots?

Would you actually just put your head down and keep working there if that happened to you? Like...why?

Especially when Joe's Tavern down the road is starting people off at $40/hour! It's like the only place left in town after everyone quit and all the restaurants went under, so they got away with charging $18 a beer and $29 a burger! The owner must be making a killing...

This is more like someone I barely know and never agreed to be in a relationship with getting upset about me seeing other people.

If you agree to monogamy, it's cheating and unethical for sure. If you don't agree to monogamy, cheating isn't even possible lol.

So if I agree to pay the listed price of an item and then I pay for it in full...

The only people who have the power to eliminate tipping are the customers. Even if employers randomly started paying servers $50 an hour, people could still tip...and many probably would to get that feeling of moral superiority. And that is sort of irrelevant anyway because how the fuck are the customers supposed to know the servers wage anyway? I literally have no idea what my server (or hostess or line cook or after hours cleaning crew staff) makes at the last place I ate at. Do you?

It's really not complicated. If customers stopped tipping, and servers can't support themselves and therefore they are forced to quit and move towards literally any other industry with a higher/stable wage. Then employers either go out of business altogether or, more realistically, raise wages to replace those workers who quit since the employer would like to keep making money instead of not making money. And thus, menu prices go up to account for the lack of tipping.

No one has ever been able to provide me a scenario where tipping ends without servers quitting due to inadequate/unstable income. But I'm certainly open to suggestions!

Tipping is, by definition, not required.

Minimum wage is sad, yes. I wish it were higher. But fast food workers and many others make it work without the tips. There is no logical basis for tipping servers if they are being paid the same minimum wage as many other people doing equal (or sometimes harder) work in other contexts.

Most of us against tipping have absolutely worked in restaurants, which is exactly why we are against it. The only people in favour of tipping (which also have reasoning that makes any sense) are those who don't tip and end up being subsidized by everyone else.

Yeah I think I'll stick to piracy thanks.

I hope when I'm old they just decide to let my generation suffer to correct this fundamentally flawed system that will inevitably collapse at some point. It's based upon the impossible notion of infinite growth.

I totally agree with you about immigration, but I tend to look at the population issue from a world wide perspective. And from that perspective the population goes up every single year without fail, which to me is a major problem that I hope our species will find a way to overcome.

I was pointing out that the person calling me a corporate teat sucker was they themself one, as evidenced by their use of an iPhone.

You can give them as obviously as you like. Even hand them the physical card is fine. It's still fraud if they use it without your explicit permission.

Edit: I misread that you said 'obviously giving them permission' part so I think I'm just reinforcing your point.

Wrong? I see people deciding not to have kids as fundamentally a good thing. Coercion into having kids due to government pressure or social norms seems a whole lot more wrong to me. It's ok to not want kids, it's not some sort of disorder that needs fixing.

I would absolutely love to see the population go down, even for like a single day, within my lifetime. But considering we've added over 2 billion people to the population since I was a kid...I don't have high hopes.