OurToothbrush @ OurToothbrush @lemmy.ml

Posts

21

Comments

1,856

Joined

2 yr. ago

Moderating

---

Would you defend german ally troops during the holocaust? No? Then maybe reflect.

Honestly, I am quite surprised how low tankies are willing to go to defend China. As a Chinese, it is very disheartening to me that people have never experienced or seen the suffering of living under an authoritarian government, are more willing to blindly defend it, than having a intellectual discussion.

Compare the prison population of the US to China's lol.

likely means the wage that reaches your bank account, i.e. wage - 401k, insurance etc

Well ain't that a shit definition then

I'm doing about 20 hours of work a week as part of a socialist org, in service of building up a center of power to actually be able to challenge the lesser and greater fascist.

I'm thinking long term, because I'm not satisfied with "just vote for the less fascist party every four years as each party keeps getting more fascist" If all the work you're doing is within the confines of bourgeois sham-democracy you'll never be able to defeat fascism. Fascism is capitalism in crisis. You can either find a magic cure to stop the contradictions of capitalism from heightening or you can move toward defeating it.

The latter is the only one that has been demonstrated to actually work.

I'm dismissing your framing; I dont live in a swing state, dont try to convince me to vote for the lesser fascist.

My question is, do you care about stopping fascism or do only you care about delaying it for another four years?

Do you care enough about stopping fascism to put in work to stop it outside of election day and trying to post your way into getting people to vote? Like, seriously, are you interested in putting in actual work to prevent fascism in the US in our lifetimes? This isn't a gotcha I'm trying to set a baseline.

What are you doing to stop fascism outside of voting for the lesser fascist?

Fascism cannot be defeated through the ballot box. It is capitalism in decay, when capitalist democracy becomes unviable and the capitalist ruling class choose capitalism over democracy.

Chinese people will need 30 years of disposible income to purchase an apartment; compare to 3 in the U.S.

Who can afford a condo with 3 years disposable income in the US? My spouse and I make above average money in a below average cost city and we couldn't afford a condo here.

"What we actually are hoping for is bloodshed, the moment when the government is ready to brazenly butcher the people. Only when the Square is awash with blood will the people of China open their eyes" - Chai Ling

But they didn't get it, so they had to exaggerate armed skirmishes into "they machinegunned sitting student protestors"

It can’t be the “Tiananmen Square Massacre” for you because then couldn’t draw in PLA members who had heart attacks and died elsewhere that day because they weren’t at the square.

You can literally find photos of protestors posing with burnt and mutilated bodies of PLA soldiers

Oh fuck he is trying to make me say "tiananmen square massacre" now Xi is going to personally come to my house and eat all my grain with his giant spoon.

Or maybe I say June 4th incident because it didn't happen in tiananmen square and massacre isn't the right word for it, considering it was armed PLA vs western armed protestors with around equal casualties before it ended.

The June 4th incident is what it is called in mainland China.

There are a lot of western narratives about the June 4th incident that are atrocity propaganda contradicted by western reporting at the time of the incident

China hosted one

Killing is different than winning. For example, the nazis killed 26 million Soviets, mostly civilians. That is roughly 17 percent of their population. The US killed something like 20 percent of the population of Korea. Both lost.

She could say "most effective" but she said "most lethal"

Good point, thanks for the criticism

I'm not in a swing state and I already vote every year. Stop trying to convince me and go attend a dsa meeting or something

Okay so you're not willing to do anything unless you, through your personal actions, can stop an entire genocide? Or are you trying to make a different point?

It is more like they're building more concentration camps and we are voting whether there should be a "in this house" lawnsign out front of each one.

At some point you have to realize that voting within capitalist psuedo-democracy will not get you the results you want, if you care about stopping the construction of the concentration camps.

At some point, you have to realize that the working class is only going to save itself from encroaching fascism by banding together, and not by voting between candidates that will never be allowed to represent our interests.

I'm sympathetic to the idea that Kamala Harris will be better in some ways than Trump, but I dont care enough to really bother examining all sides of the argument, because fascism is a structural issue that will not be resolved through sham elections where people only get options approved by the Capitalist class.

The capitalist class will lead us to fascism if they are not stopped. That is the long and short of it.

If you care about stopping fascism- if you're willing to put blood sweat and tears into preventing it from happening in the US- you have to join a socialist org and work towards defeating capitalism. Our oppressors will not grant us freedom through their ballot box.

I admit I’m ignorant on the issue, and you seem to know: what are some examples of socialist organizations being the main force in stopping fascism?

WW2. Soviet Union inflicting more than 80 percent of losses + partisans in the Balkans freeing themselves. Italian partisans were also not given credit for their huge role in liberating Italy. Most resistance in fascist territory had a huge socialist contingent. Romania had a socialist movement that pulled off a coup during ww2 as the Soviets were making their push back to Berlin, saving a massive amount of lives.The socialists during the Spanish Civil War, although they were basically just Spanish Republicans + limited soviet aid fighting against half of Spain, and massive German and Italian forces, so they lost.

In Germany, the socialists fought the fascists but the liberals were more willing to form a coalition with the fascists than with the socialists.

And what about the cases of socialist fascism? Is the only remedy a more socialist organization?

Could you define what you mean by this? Because fascism is a specific thing that emerges within capitalism. There is no such thing as socialist fascism, as someone who has done a lot of learning on the history of fascism and socialism.

Don’t give a shit who you vote for but if you want to actually stop fascism you have to go join a socialist org. Liberals are structurally incapable of stopping fascism, as fascism is capitalism in decay and liberals support capitalism as their number 1 priority.

Is this mutually exclusive with your friend's statement?

Do you care about stopping fascism? Then you must study its history, and come to the understanding that it can only be opposed by socialist organizing.

Go join a socialist org. Vote for whoever you want to but don't pretend like voting for Kamala Harris will stop the crisis.

To oppose fascism with conviction, you have to build up a socialist project.