OccamsTeapot @ OccamsTeapot @lemmy.world

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770

Joined

2 yr. ago

You also didn't answer the question on why you think Genocide shouldn't be a reductive label.

Seems like they're avoiding answering direct questions about their beliefs or even fully explaining them. Why you might do that is anyone's guess

You're so close to seeing your presupposed framing for what it is.

Please just spell it out for me and stop this bullshit.

There you go again. I'm not sure why you feel the need to ascribe your brain dump binaries onto me, as if somehow I can only believe the things you make up for me.

You could just clarify. Good VP choice, yes or no?

Also that's not an assumption, that's a prediction.

Not a good one so far.

What happened to "I don’t really care dude"? Seems like you suddenly care again. When did that change?

Perhaps you should read more carefully. You said that tripling down doesn't make me look smarter. I don't care about that.

I like that YouTube series.

I'm not saying you're an apologist, but clearly your initial comment laid the blame at the feet of unhappy voters, not the genocide supporting VP candidate. That feels like apologetics. Perhaps you think he would have been a bad choice too, but you chose to blame the left (or "far left") for having a problem with this in your comment, without acknowledging the issue, and that speaks volumes.

You're a whisper away from baselessly calling me a Zionist. I can feel it coming.

Lol and I'm supposedly the one making bad faith assumptions?

Them: "We don't want a VP candidate that supports genocide"

You: "Oh look here comes the circular firing squad" ie "these people who take issue with the candidate are the problem, not the candidate"

Please tell me how this isn't apologetics or playing defense for someone supporting genocide

I really don't have any intention to do that, I don't know you. Anyway looks like she chose correctly now. So it's all good.

I don't really care dude

I'll take "more apologetics the abhorrent" for 100, Alex.

People just really dislike genocide it seems. It's almost like they'd rather vote for people who don't support it. The real question is why you apparently have such a problem with that?

Harris seems better on this and the party is basically united, so why fuck it up now? The fact that you jump to blame voters is embarrassing

Settings shortcut: Comments > Padding style

Setting this to minimum helped me

The video shows some guys standing around some pipes and then an exterior shot of an explosion. That's accompanied by some text and audio. It's posted on TikTok. As far as I can tell, the claims haven't been independently verified, that is, confirmed by credible, factual reporting extrinsic to the video.

Ok but there are two stories you say are credible just below this, and they establish clear facts.

So two questions:

Do you believe this was posted by an IDF soldier, as reported by the Times of Israel?

Do you believe the video shows the Canada Well plant, as stated by both the original poster and a representative of the Canadian government?

If the answer to both of these is yes, what remaining reason is there to doubt the video? You say the "claims" haven't been verified but no claim is needed. It is on video. Do you mean the claim that the facility was destroyed, and that the external shot was not of something else being destroyed?

I am not being obtuse here, I just really don't understand what you mean

If it turns out to be legit, which I would stress - since it was posted by the IDF soldiers themselves* - seems likely: would you not agree that this is likely a war crime?

*some edits to add.

From the Times of Israel article about it:

In the video, posted by a soldier to Instagram and later circulated on X, troops can be seen rigging up the water facility, known as Canada Well, with explosives. Another clip shows the site being blown up.

The video was tagged with the caption: “Demolishing the water reservoir of Tel Sultan in honor of the Sabbath.”

The Canadian government, who built the plant, also agrees that the video shows it being destroyed: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ottawa-calls-for-probe-into-demolished-canadian-water-treatment-plant-in-gaza-1.7281666

Seems very unlikely an IDF soldier would post a video claiming to be destroying a facility, which we know exists, and the people who paid to build it would identify it was the same building, and it would turn out to not be in Gaza at all. It is almost certainly the plant discussed in these articles.

In fact, it is an act of genocide, since depriving the population of water is "Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part."

Maybe the water system was supplying the tunnels, which would make it a legit target.

Isn't the main issue whether the facility was supplying the civilian population? What about proportionality?

it certainly flies in the face of other evidence like the fact that Israel lets new water infrastructure into Gaza all the time and new water desalinization plants have opened (and haven't been destroyed) even just since the war began.

We spoke about this before. Here is the link to the facts again: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68969239

Half of Gaza's water sites had been damaged or destroyed as of that report.

And here is the image of three specific examples again:

It certainly doesn't "fly in the face of other evidence," the evidence is all pointing in the same direction.

When we spoke about this previously, you speculated (based on "probability," in your words) that the facilities were maybe collateral damage during an attack on Hamas fighters. In this case, we have the video footage. No Hamas fighters. Charges specifically placed on water infrastructure. No attempt to access or destroy a tunnel. This is simply naked evidence of an intentional attack on the necessities of life for the civilian population.

Have you watched the video yet?

Unfortunately if this is the poll from last week there were only 100 black people included, so it is very small for the subgroup. However neither this article nor the link they left have the full breakdown, this is just from memory

I don't have evidence of this but I believe the owner/operator of the site is pro Israel and this bleeds through into the ratings, which are not produced in any objective or repeatable fashion. It says Times of Israel has not failed any fact checks, but it clearly doesn't investigate this in a systematic way. I personally reported one particularly egregious and obviously false headline some months back and never heard anything.

It lists the fact checks the Guardian failed (totally fair), but overall I would say most similar websites rank them highly for factual content and for good reason.

For stuff unrelated to Israel I think MBFC is pretty solid if a little unclear and opaque in it's approach.

The Guardian is "mixed" and yet Times of Israel is "high" for factual reporting. MBFC is trash.

Gaza has been polio-free for 25 years and 95% of the population was vaccinated against the disease as of 2022, according to the WHO, though Haj-Hassan, the pediatrician, said that many Gazans, including newborns, have gone without vaccines or boosters for the last nine months.

The WHO said that it's working with other U.N. agencies and health authorities in Gaza to assess how much the poliovirus has spread and determine what measures may be needed, including a "prompt" vaccination campaign.

Combatting any infectious diseases will present challenges for Gaza's public healthcare system, which has been embattled and largely destroyed by Israeli forces. Only 16 out of the enclave's 36 hospitals are even partially functional, and only 45 of the 105 primary health care facilities are operational, according to the WHO.

Some people would look you straight in the face and tell you that even though Israel did all this to the health care system, the enemy is Hamas and not the entire population of Gaza. As if they didn't know what destroying hospitals leads to.

There is no way they hit them purposefully.

Are you saying they missed? 6 times in 10 days?

No I haven’t seen this behavior.

Can't help you there. You should maybe pay more attention.

Any criticism I’ve seen of his Gaza policy has not EVER been met with anything like “ furious accusations of treason, disloyalty and betrayal.”

In fact every single time the response has been an appeal to the realities of the current political system/calculus.

This is just saying, "but Trump would be worse!!!" in more intelligent language. It is literally what I said happens. Criticising Biden's Gaza policy is NOT a statement about the election, the only reason to make it one is if you want to squash any criticism of him quickly and easily without engaging in a substantive discussion of the issue.

So people ignore the specific criticism of policy, turn it into electoral calculus and then insinuate that because of the criticism of policy, the person must be considering voting for Trump, which would make them disloyal or betrayers. The thing you said has "NEVER" happened was literally your example of what does happen.

Unless you're going to say the thing you disagree with is that the post claims it's a "furious accusation"? But, just like you saying "every single time" (obviously not) this is hyperbole and it's not fair to solely focus on that. I'm sure you didn't mean literally every time and I'm sure the writer was just trying to add a bit of spice

Edit: came across a great example https://lemm.ee/comment/13326190

It's also strange that the number of participants doesn't match up. Newsweek says 2,045 but your link says 2,203. Of course we would know what the issue is if they left a link to the poll rather than a vague description.

It seems like you're right though and this is bullshit.