MasterOBee Master/King @ MasterObee @lemmy.world

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2 yr. ago

Both parties are capable of the same things by definition

Exactly. I'm, in general, against blanket statements saying that one group of people is inherently worth less, is more stupid or malleable that another group of people. Germany fell into fascism, does that mean the German people are inherently worse people and that's why they followed the evil leader they did? No. The fact that England fought against these fascists, does that mean England is inherently better, good and would never follow an evil leader? No, they committed absurd atrocities throughout their imperialist rule.

If one party continues to push policies that are bad (for whatever criteria of “bad” you’re using), it stacks up

Unfortunately, what's been considered 'bad' is simply things we disagree with. I disagree with most liberal policies, it doesn't make the other side 'bad'

What is the current Republican attitude towards minorities?

That we shouldn't care about race that much, we should be color blind and not prefer any race to another, but rather the content of their character. The current democratic attitude towards minorities is that there's a hierarchy of good and bad races. Unfortunately, I'm part of the bad minorities so I get penalties in basic things, like job interviews, and college applications.

Why does the current Republican party love the Confederacy, and feel very comfortable with a Nazi infestation?

To some, confederacy now is more about a state having the right to enact policies as it sees fit, as opposed to having a huge bloated federal government. I'm pretty much as north as you can get, I'm not waving a confederate flag, but if someone asks if states should have rights to enact policies their voters want, I'm gonna say yes.

I can't speak for all republicans, nor most, but every single individual I know that has voted for a republican does not like Nazi's. We aren't comfortable sharing any sort of label with racists. Do you have any satistics on how republicans 'feel comfortable' with Nazi's?

Lol, it’s cute you think queer rights is just a simple disagreement.

What rights specifically are you talking about?

I’m sure you agree with every single conservative plank when you vote.

Nope, actually, I disagree on a lot of conservative views.

Not sure what your “gotcha” is here. I had family who voted for him.

You said they voted against lgbt policies and that's why they're on your shit list, but there's not one lgbt policy you can name they voted against

If someone votes for politicians with anti-queer policies then they need to deal with the consequences just like the rest of us do.

So you're for repercussions against people that don't vote in line with you?

I don’t have to associate with anyone and there isn’t a rational argument against queer human rights.

Of course, you have freedom of association listed out in our constitutional rights. What human rights do I, an asian male, have that queers don't? My girlfriend is queer, so I really want to know what human rights she does not have so I can fight for her.

(or whoever the GOP nom will be)

Oh, so an individual candidate's views doesn't matter, purely the party? Do you know anyone who voted for Obama in 08? They were voting for a man that was against gay marriage, you better cut them off. As I mentioned before, and you ignored, Trump is the first president to come into office being pro-gay marriage.

if Biden is the not-Trump option then you better vote for his senior citizen ass.

I think part of the reason why people feel they don't have a choice is because the DNC seems to have just chosen biden instead of letting any other democratic candidate have a chance at the nominee.

Vivek is, to my knowledge, the youngest candidate. Although he's not my first choice, I think he has some solid arguments, and understanding of where the culture is at and the persisting issues in our government.

The reason we're in this mess is because of political tribalism. If we actually want different candidates, we gotta vote for them.

Last month the Republican-dominated Legislature overturned his veto of a bill that will ban transition-related medical care, including puberty blockers, hormone therapy and surgery, **for minors starting Jan. 1, 2024. **

I don't know if gender transitioning surgeries for minors is a reason to dislike a state. Seems to say more about this guys morals that he's pro-life altering surgery for minors.

As I said I am not wasting my time

Trying to back up your statements with evidence from respectable international organizations.

Come on man, why even try to argue your point if you aren't going to put forth a solid argument? You're rage quitting because you can't back up your false statements.

(and thus, kinda push the definition of the body of conservative beliefs farther right)

I don't really agree with this. The republican party shifting doesn't mean the ideals of conservative ideology changes.

On the other side of the coin, just because democrats are starting to become more socialist, does that mean that liberal ideologies are changing?

I'm still a conservative because I believe in tradition, I believe in small government and a country that abides by the constitution is the best way to govern. I believe in the free market and put more emphasis on a states individuality rather than having a large federal government.

Hahaha see exactly, I can provide as much information on the topic about how we spend so much money per student in our country, and our peer countries are spending 30% less but having better results, from a reliable, liberal approved OECD.

You're being willingly ignorant, you refuse to accept facts from reliable international organizations because you refuse to acknowledge that the way the left wants to deal with the problem doesn't make sense.

You say 'no we need more funding! Shut up you're wrong, you're saying something that may have some sort of conservative leaning! You hate kids'

You provide no information of why people should believe your stance. What are you doing man? Look into issues and try to understand them before you spout off about shit you don't know. Whenever you talk trash about how the MAGA folk just follow their leader and don't look into issues or understand reliable sources, you're talking trash about yourself, too.

There is exactly one party in the US that gerrymanders.

You're showing how little you know about politics in the US then. Both do, and both constantly debate about which gerrymandered maps they should use.

There is one party that pushes heavily on voter suppression of non white voters.

The republican party pushed for personhood of black people for 200 years. Democrats fought against ending slavery.

There is exactly one party that shreds child labor laws.

My friend lived with his brother and single mother, he was 14 and needed to work to make sure the bills for himself, his mother and brother could be paid. This isn't the case of every single fight against child labor laws, but it's not as objective as you'd think. Are you going to tell my friend that it should be illegal for him to work to help his family out?

There is exactly one party that strives to strip basic human rights from marginalized groups.

What rights are you talking about?

One party that seems to attract Nazis.

And one side that attracts communists. Nazi's tend to be traditional authoritarians, of course they're gonna be on the right. Communism has killed 100x as many people as Nazism. You singling out one authoritarian group just shows your bias.

None of the above is being hyperbolic

I'll let you read my responses then you can see how these are exactly hyperbolic and your bias is so prevalent you believe that your values are objective.

You did. You literally said your parents are on your shit list because they voted against lgbt policies. Then I asked about those policies, and you said that they actually didn't do that....?

They voted for Trump in 2016

Trump was the first pro-gay marriage president that had ever been elected.

Had my step dad voted for Trump in 2020 he wouldn’t be invited to my gay wedding because Republicans want to overturn Obergafell.

Do you agree with every single policy every single democrat has ever discussed?

I don’t care who you vote for as long as they support gay rights.

"I don't care who you vote for as long as it's someone who agrees with me"

I didn’t lie. You just can’t read.

My bad, you didn't say "they’re still on my shit list for voting against LGBT stuff"?

I’m a single issue voter and that issue is queer rights.

And anyone that doesn't think exactly like you and vote exactly like you is on your shit list?

You want me to pick two schools in the whole united states to compare their demographics and if the lower income school does better it proves my point?

How bout this, I've shown proof and a source that shows how much we're spending in schools and how much other countries are spending, all provided by the OECD, a very reliable organization.

How about you provide any source showing that with low income schools we don't provide the funding per full time student comparable to other countries, and/or that education proficiency is directly related to spending.

I think you’re the type that is happy to defund schools

Once again, you're thinking is wrong. I explained to you exactly what the OECD said - that we spend more per FTE than any of our peer countries, and by a substantial amount. Did I say I wanted to defund schools? No, I said that we can't keep throwing money at the system and expect it to be fixed. See this is what you do, you don't have any sources, statistics or any information, you just think any criticism of a government organization is a 'conservative viewpoint' and therefore baseless.

I provided sources to back up my claim, you should do the same or I don't want to waste time on you.

What private contractors are taking up the school funding? If that's true, sounds like a fundamental problem with our education system, that throwing more money at the problem won't solve.

Banning arbitrary assault weapons for some citizens and not others.

Reparations.

Hahah, see how quickly you back down from your comment?

'well, I lied before, but they might as well have!! Therefore, SHITLIST!'

Go ahead, tell me who they voted for that they're on your shit list because they vote differently than you do.

Ok but it’s pretty clear that lack of budget is correlated to poor education. You have to be disconnected from reality to say it isn’t. That sounds like some conservative talking point to me.

I mean someone that has $0 spent on their education is clearly not going to have enough resources to get a reasonable education, but we're not talking about that, so why even try to argue that?

We spend more than any other country, more than our peer countries by about 34%, yet our education system is crap. So my argument, that you can't just throw money at schools and expect them to get better, is factual.

Saying any criticism about government organizations isn't inherently conservative, it's just reality.

Homie, like 3 of those were from 2018, a couple from 2020.

The most recent article, which is from an reasonable 2022, is in Oregon, your AP source is Oregon, too. Another you linked is in Boise.

You're trying really hard to prove your point, but all you've done is dig up 5 year old articles of a couple hundred Trump supporters in different states.

Why do you believe that?

Because I don't believe those who vote republican are inherently more evil or stupid than those who vote democrat.

Because I saw the movement Obama made, and although he is much much much better than Trump, he was borderline Demi-god status to the left. Because throughout history, there are evil far left leaders that misled people and far right people that misled people.

Do you think the left in the U.S. are immune to tactics that have worked throughout human history in countries throughout south america, europe, asia and africa?

It stops loyal party members from independently evaluating the other platform. It’s an excellent way to get people to not vote. It’s a way to excuse unacceptable behavior within one’s own party.

Or it tells people that party loyalty is trash, that both parties are capable of good and evil and have good and bad candidates, regardless of the letter by their name.

Saying 'My political side is different, it is objectively better than the other' is the problem. The beneficiaries of the division are, as you probably know, the rich. Show me a democrat that doesn't take rich folks money to help their campaign.

I am immediately suspicious of any Both sides are the same messaging.

Do you think only the right is capable of electing and following bad political candidates?

If it is believed, all sorts of critical thinking gets pushed off to the side.

As I stated above, the 'my side is objectively better' rhetoric does that. Thinking that both sides are capable of good things and bad makes you think about and consider which policies each are pushing that's good and the ones that are bad. Staying dug into your side is what keeps you in an echo chamber.

If there's a big trump culture, where are the rallies out here? Where are the protests? Trumpers are known for protesting liberal areas they don't like, where are the protests in bellingham regarding drag events at schools?

You've listed one area where you see some Trump trucks and signs. That doesn't prove that there's a big trump culture out here.There's 33% of Washington adults that call themselves republicans, where is the Trump culture that you're talking about? A couple signs? come on man. Prove your point or move on, don't get pedantic saying 'hey, go to this city in this road and on fridays there's a trump truck by a trump sign. If you wait for the new moon, you might see two trump trucks!'