LibertyLizard @ LibertyLizard @slrpnk.net

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18

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2,307

Joined

2 yr. ago

I can’t predict the future, I’m just speaking to what I see in the culture today. I heard from a lot of Trump voters that their perception of him as an anti-war candidate was a factor in their support, so I do think this is true in this moment. How deeply held that conviction is and how easily it will be swayed when our rulers decide war is to their favor remains to be seen but at minimum it will require political capital to drag people along with their imperialism.

I’m fine with preparations. If it comes to war then we must try to win. But we don’t need to make that outcome more likely. I think the right has a huge advantage in war because of their inherent militarism and because legally Trump is the commander in chief and the military is very likely to side with him. It’s not to our advantage to fight them militarily.

But I think there are still other paths available to us. You are wrong that nonviolent solutions are not useful. They can and have been used successfully in situations far more dire than the situation in the US today. There is a widespread lack of knowledge about the effectiveness of civil resistance in our culture today and we need to educate ourselves about these tactics that have worked to bring down dictatorships in the past.

I highly recommend this book for a deeper dive on this topic: https://commonslibrary.org/civil-resistance-what-everyone-needs-to-know/

Maybe you are right that I should have phrased it differently. I apologize for that but I am frustrated by this kind of rhetoric that in my view misses the underlying dynamics and makes us feel powerless.

There’s a lot to unpack here. Your assessment of the situation is right—this is extremely dangerous and it cannot be allowed to stand. But that means our political strategy is more important than ever. People seem to think that because this is dangerous and we’re angry we just need to go for the most extreme reaction possible but this does not logically follow if it’s not effective in achieving our goals.

First you need to understand that this is happening because a plurality of Americans want it to. So it’s not at all clear to me that violent actions will turn anyone against them. Maybe if the acts are small and well targeted and there is a huge, violent overreaction, but remember that their control over the media means it will be painted in the worst possible light. I personally think this only increases the danger and is more likely to turn fence-sitters and even some supporters against us than to join the cause.

A military coup is a particularly bad solution. Firstly because it has exactly zero chance of happening—our military leaders are not going to take Trump out because he’s trying to perform an internal coup. They just won’t. And even if they did, there is a danger they don’t relinquish power. And even if they did that it still normalizes the military as the highest power that can simply depose any president they don’t like. It’s hard to imagine a more destructive action to American democracy even if it did remove Trump from office.

The best actions at this time are raising awareness of what’s happening and building and organizing public support and resistance. People are scared and discouraged right now. We need actions that change this energy and unite people. Like it or not, political violence is divisive in US culture and it won’t achieve this. Once our movement is widely supported and powerful we can take on Trump directly but we need to build that up first.

In the meantime, courts, bureaucrats and politicians need to do everything they can to raise the alarm, slow things down, and impose political costs on them to make their takeover more difficult. This can buy us time to muster the public support we need to win.

It’s not an attack it’s just a lack of knowledge that almost all people share. But we need to understand these things to fight back.

But whatever, I can’t force you to be interested.

How exactly?

He means it but I think this one will be way too unpopular to go anywhere. But we’ll see I guess. I’m no prophet.

Eventually yes probably but the mood right now continues to be very anti-war at least in terms of direct US involvement. So that makes these imperialist fantasies at least more difficult and costly to implement.

Trump likes to cosplay as the supreme leader but like all presidents he has limited political capital to spend and going against his base will be very costly indeed.

You don’t seem to have a clear understanding of politics. He doesn’t have a choice. Like all leaders, Trump’s power comes from his supporters. If they don’t follow him then he can’t do a damn thing.

Now I think it’s possible he may be able to drag them along but the fact that people on the right are already rejecting this idea is a good sign.

Nah fuck war I don’t want that and neither do you. We gotta figure out how to win without that.

They surely don’t like this idea but they’re scared of daddy Trump.

Also they know it’s going nowhere and will be forgotten if they just ignore it.

When we ask for housing for our homeless neighbors there is no money. But when they decide they want to deport millions of immigrants without justification suddenly we have plenty of funding for shelters.

Glad to hear a relatively mainstream voice in Krugman accurately describe the situation here. I’ve been trying to raise awareness among my friends and most don’t seem to see the big picture yet. That if they succeed in this sneaky civil service shit they will gain dictatorial power in this country.

I believe we can still beat Trump the dictator but it will be a lot easier to beat Trump the president before that.

Hell yeah! Fight to the bitter end!

If there’s one silver lining to this insanity it’s that it does seem like there is widespread consensus in American society that we don’t want any more foreign wars or adventurism.

Not really. I mean they do discuss other topics but the ideology flows through everything there.

I don’t understand how you could possibly think this. Literally any discussion of China, even non-political that does not conform to the admins beliefs results in an immediate instance-wide ban. It is one of the most censored spaces on the internet and absolutely not safe for anarchist ideas.

I saw it being denounced as a psyop which I thought was funny, since I think it pretty clearly isn't one. But directing people to lemmy.ml is bad advice as most of us know.

There are plenty of examples where protest movements have forced the resignation of authoritarian leaders without major acts of violence. So this is not accurate.

Also, the most effective movements violent or nonviolent are large and diverse. So the main actions need to be building the movement first rather than direct confrontation—unless that confrontation is strategically designed to further grow the movement.

You don’t understand yet. The words are a cover for their real intentions which are to go after the enemies of Christianity under the guise of investigating hate crimes.