Taffer @ Laffytaffer @lemmy.world

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2 yr. ago

Two or more. If you're really dead set on saying bisexuality is inherently sexist or transphobic, that's your own thing to deal with. I don't get the sense that this is in good faith.

You should just come in and take over on this because this is exactly what I've been trying to say, but now it's being said properly by someone who isn't a moron lmao

Evidently there's something wrong with my word choice of "prejudice" because that word choice really seems to be the part everyone's getting pissed over. Do you have any suggestion for a more appropriate word choice because you seem to at least kinda get what I'm trying to say.

Human sexuality is itself prejudiced.

Correct, people have their prejudices when it comes to partners. I think I'm starting to get the disconnect now. The comment I replied to stated that lack of attraction to trans people isn't transphobic. I think people are reading transphobic in this sense as explicitly hateful, and I've been trying to state that while it might not be hateful, it is transphobic in the sense that it's displaying a prejudice against trans people. Perhaps a misinterpretation of the term on my part, but I question if someone's prejudice towards a trans partner stems from a level of internalized hate, conscious or not.

You are claiming that sexual attraction is never allowed to stop once it starts.

No I'm not, and if that's really how it's been coming across, then that's a mistake on how I've been phrasing my argument.

The dealbreaker is absolutely allowed to be genitalia - it can also be a mole or an odor or a nose that you decide reminds you too much of someone who caused trauma or whatever.

I've been saying this over and over and I don't know how else I can phrase it to make it clear that I don't disagree with that idea. You're allowed to have whatever deal breakers you want, but that deal breaker being solely that the person is trans is prejudice against trans people.

It is very much you saying we can control attraction to deny how sexuality operates.

Again, I'm not trying to say this and if that's the position that's coming across, then I made a mistake with my wording.

We can argue till the cows come home about whether or not refusing to date a trans person is okay, but I'm not trying to argue the morality of prejudice against a trans partner(though obviously I have opinions about it). You and the other person who replied to me may think that the prejudice is okay, prejudice isn't inherently negative. But the argument I'm reading from both of you is that it's somehow not prejudiced, which is simply incorrect by the definition of prejudice.

Hello, other trans person here questioning what part of my statement gave you the impression that I'm saying you have control over who you're attracted to. The entire idea I've said several times now is that if your attraction to someone is only overridden by the fact that they're trans rather than any actual physical or emotional traits they have, then at that point there's nothing to do with your sexual, emotional, or physical attraction to someone and just boils down to a prejudice against trans people. Any trait that might actually determine someone's attraction towards a person is not a single shared trait that all of us have.

If you think that a relationship is the line where that prejudice is considered okay, that's for you to decide and I wont stop you. Everyone is going to have prejudices regarding potential partners, I'm married but personally wouldn't have dated someone with even vaguely conservative views for instance. But whether it makes cis people uncomfortable or not, it is prejudiced to ignore all attraction towards us just because we're trans and for no other reason.

Of course lemmy.world went down right as I finished writing my response and made me lose everything lmao

Anyhow none of what you said contradicts the point I'm trying to make, which I've evidently failed miserably at making even with an edit.

I'm not saying you have to go out and get a trans girlfriend. What I'm trying to get at is that, as you noted, it's possible for a trans woman to meet the requirements a cishet man might have for traits such as genitals, personality, voice, height, body type, etc. This hypothetical cishet dude doesn't have to be attracted to every trans woman, just like how it would be insane if he was attracted to every cis woman. But if that perfect trans woman showed up, who meets every possible requirement for the guy, and he still doesn't want to date her because she's trans, then that is prejudice against trans people.

There's probably going to still be a disconnect on this despite my best efforts and this whole thing will probably get slammed with downvotes too. I'm rephrasing an argument based off of what I mostly remember saying in my original reply to this before world shit the bed, and plus this is a conversation about LGBT people happening in a comment section full of (presumably) cishet people. Getting within 1000 yards of the possibility that they aren't perfect allies with absolutely no internalized bias or prejudice is going to get people defensive. But hell, I'm several letters in LGBT and I've got internalized homophobia and transphobia that I'm trying to sort out, the point I'm trying to make here wasn't an easy one for me to consider either when it was said by someone way smarter than me.

Pansexuality is broader than bisexuality, and people who identify as pansexual may be attracted to people of all genders. Bisexuality is the attraction to two or more genders, but not necessarily all.

The terms broadly overlap, but the distinction matters to some people and that's okay.

If you're refusing to date someone solely because they're trans, then yeah it kinda is. Things like genital preference, the person "passing", etc are preferences you're certainly allowed to have, but are going to apply on a case by case basis. If you're otherwise attracted to someone and the only deal breaker is the fact that they're trans, that's by definition a prejudice against trans people.

Edit: listen nobody is forcing yall to date a trans person. What I'm saying is that most valid hang ups someone might have don't apply to every trans person, there's gonna be trans people with the junk/body type/voice/whatever else that you're into. So refusing to date someone just because they're trans is the prejudiced part, not whatever personal preference you have that's gonna stop you from dating some or most trans folks.

Try not to feed the trolls

Absolutely. I don't watch her very much anymore, but if nothing else she was a big contributing factor to getting me solidly left.

I don't have the charisma for it, but it would be great fun to be on Game Changer or other Dropout stuff like Um Actually or Make Some Noise

"If you take a shot every time Frodo says the word "ring" you pass out before the movie ends. This means something and I am intelligent."

Crazy, it's almost like that's one of the things the movie was about.

That's certainly an unpopular opinion. I love rereading Calvin and Hobbes strips. Maybe it's a heaping portion of nostalgia goggles bringing me back to being a little kid learning how to read via comics, but I find all the newspaper strips I grew up with really comforting, none more so than C&H

Contrapoints got me on the right track, but I could also imagine Vaush and his edginess being a good foot in the door for some.

Severe abuse by the church made me firmly anti religion for most of my youth, and then meeting religious people of varied faiths who weren't monsters softened my feelings as I realized it wasnt all entirely evil. Then studying some of my family's roots brought me where I am now: vaguely pagan while still acknowledging that I'm always going to be culturally Christian. I like to just tell people I'm a "recovering Catholic" for brevity and a laugh.

As for my social and political views, it was seeing all my friends come out as queer and realizing that I could either keep the far right views my family taught me, or I could learn to get my head out of my ass to keep my found family. Once I started forming my own opinions, I realized I got fed a load of shit my whole life(and also I'd wind up coming out too lmao)

I'm not the same person as I was before I watched(and later read) Annihilation, particularly in how I think about trauma

Slaughterhouse 5 had the same effect on me, as well as reframing how I view morality.

I think it's difficult for most comedy to stand the test of time(not all obviously). I went back and watched Bo Burnham's older work after watching Inside. At the time, that stuff was hilarious, but now it makes me cringe hard.