HauntedCupcake @ HauntedCupcake @lemmy.world

Posts

0

Comments

267

Joined

2 yr. ago

I think the discussion of “Which gender has it worse” is less important than “how do we make society safer for everyone”

You immediately went back into “Which gender has it worse”. There are no sides here, people just make it that way.

I understand how you feel. There's an often promoted stereotype that men are large, strong, aggressive, and sexually predatory that informs public perception and behaviour. But it's an opinion that you need to try get across using a lot of tact, and a demonstrable understanding of other points of view. Especially in discussions like these, as it's possible for both parties to be in the right, just identifying different problems.

This post comes off as a rant that only appeals to people who already agree with you. You and others aren't going to learn anything. Try removing some of the energy, especially the anger. Calm it down, don't use extreme examples. Read what others are saying, digest it, and properly incorporate it into your response and world view.

The vast majority of people aren't outright lying, they just have a different view of reality that you can learn from

Apologies, I thought you were dismissing men's emotions based on those emotions being irrational

Agreed, my assumption was that it means an unknown/random stranger. Not that they were behaving weird. Other people have suggested people think of the worst man/bear.

All lead to more division and confusion.

Edit: After re-reading the Know Your Meme linked above, the original TikTok doesn't actually specify anything. It's just "Would you rather be stuck in a forest with a man or a bear?"

Edit 2: It's this post/article that introduces the "strange" part: https://lemmy.world/post/14872533

You meant they should stop having emotions? Rather than stop defending themselves?

The statement is making a large generalisation about a group that they're part of. With every single other group it's socially acceptable to find that offensive, yet these men are expected to "to take it like a man" and not get upset?

I'm not saying they're right assuming it's about them, but it's easy to see how the mistake can happen.

Sure the statement being so inflammatory crosses the line into unacceptable misandry, but society clearly isn't ready to just accept that.

I honestly don't have a solution

I'm not, I'm just stating how a good amount of people clearly think. It's unfair to be so aggressive to what's a reasonable reaction to an inflammatory question

Okay? That's just not true though. I've convinced people in this thread that were vehemently anti-bear to agree with the actual point behind the issue, "enough men are shit to women, that they'd choose bear".

It's just a little understanding that using an insult/inflammatory statement like this, then using the post title to charge it further can cause knee jerk reactions in people.

Hell a good amount of the anti-bear crowd are women. It's unfair for you to expect the majority of men to be as emotionally developed as you are when a good chunk of women don't get it either

I get what you're saying, I really do. But that's also true for the other side. I heavily support listening to everyone and looking for the kernel of truth in every opinion.

But that's not how the vast majority of the population thinks, men and women, especially when issues are emotionally charged. A lot of politics nowadays shows that

No one learns anything if they just leave. You'd rather they just get the impression that most women are dumb, hate men, and don't know anything about bears?

Making the question so inflammatory is a double edged sword, you reach a larger audience, but you're way more likely to drive people from your cause.

It's okay for men to have feelings, I don't get why everyone expects them to be cold calculating machines that automatically have the required knowledge and emotional intelligence to see through this esoteric bear question. Hell, there's a good chunk of women on side man.

A little empathy and respect goes a long way, you can't get anywhere just making enemies

(Mens/Womens) Lack of empathy is why women prefer the bear.

It reads as both due to the lack of specificity

Men are allowed emotions. Emotions aren't always rational

This reads two different ways, I agree with both

It is insulting though. It being true doesn't make it less so. You can communicate the truth in such a way that it doesn't alienate potential allies, and create potential enemies

I agree with you there, but I think it's valid for guys to have emotions.

Saying "I think the average man is more likely to harm me than a bear" is very easy to misinterpret, and then further demonising those people by saying they're the problem isn't helping. It just leaves them more confused and isolated.

I've had plenty of conversations with men defending themselves, it's easy enough to help them understand that enough men give women bad experiences that they prefer the bear. It just needs to be done calmly to avoid further getting their guard up

Same here mate. I wish we could actually have decent calm discussions about these things. The world would be a utopia overnight.

Thank you for the calm discussion, it's been far more interesting than the other rage threads

Totally understand your point, I'm not saying that the anti bear side is all dudes defending themselves. Although I should have written that better because it's not obvious.

I'm mostly responding to the post title of "Either ya understand why most women pick the 🐻 or you are the 🐻" which has the effect of making men feel bad for trying to defend themselves.

I wish more people were as level headed as you in these discussions. Part of my point is that the bear side aren't being reasonable

You're right, factually you're right. That's not what this is really about though.

Enough strangers are weird and creepy to women they've just met in a way that feels threatening and scary. Think about catcalling, groping at bars, first dates gone wrong. None of these are going to be recorded as incidents, even if they should be.

The bear doesn't matter, the statement is about feelings, not facts or logic. It's about how women feel unsafe around unknown men

I get where you're coming from, that's why I'm arguing in favour of more empathy for the men, as well as more empathy for the women.

I just want people to calm down and talk to each other

100% agree that the question's framing is divisive and inflammatory. I also hate the "All Men" garbage, I find the phrase "Enough Men" to be a lot better for getting the point across.

A lot of discourse nowadays seems to ignore that men are people too, and that they have emotions, often emotions that society pressures them not to have. It's got to be hard repeatedly being told you're a monster just because of the way you're born.

There's this expectation that men should be capable of looking after themselves, but at the same time should just take abuse and deal with it "like a man".

I think you should be able to criticise women's behaviour, enough women are shitty in a uniquely woman way that it needs to be open to criticism. I see your point that you're likely to get shunned or downvoted to oblivion though, assuming you're not just straight up banned. It's upsetting that the world is as messed up and awkward as it is