HalfSalesman @ HalfSalesman @lemm.ee

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6 mo. ago

I mean sure its a skill in that it is deliberate public relations craft.

No. Or at least I know Lonerbox isn't.

And yet, I’ve given him clicks.

I thought you said you only watched clips of him? I assumed you meant by other creators.

All I can see is that I see a pretty clear method to the madness. There’s always an out, it’s always “you don’t understand the context.” It’s the same tactic Trump uses, and the same tactic used in countless ad campaigns.

Trump supporters don't actually care about context though. They say that shit for propaganda purposes. Vaush supporters bring up context because he literally gets clipped out of context for oppositional propaganda purposes.

Also, there isn't always an "out". Some of the things Vaush has said/done are bad even with context. Like when he told his followers to go harass Contrapoints on Twitter once because he was upset with her and wanted to "Force her to see reason" or whatever. When he was unnecessarily nasty to TJ Kirk during some debate. Or when he flashed on screen AI generated and drawn porn of a canonically 16 year old character and bestiality.

There are a few other things I'm probably forgetting.

No, there’s lot’s of little niches that one can carve out, regardless of being left or right. There’s plenty of opportunists with supposedly left-leaning brands. The right-wing grifts and personality cults are more profitable, but it’s also a fairly saturated market with a lot of competition. There’s plenty of room for people like Destiny, Jimmy Dore, and Vaush to carve out their respective “left-leaning” niches.

Jimmy Dore is 100% vapid grift. Destiny is a terrible human being but he is also almost certainly not a grifter. He says what he means and means what he says.

Vaush is someone who is significantly egotistical, narcissistic, impulsive, and short sighted. But he is not a controversy-monger, on that front he is just a dumbass.

I have no idea what the specific goal was but it seems like it was just a place for interesting debate. I only know I got invited because of my advocacy for UBI on Reddit back when I was a (otherwise pro-capitalism) liberal and then from spending time there I morphed into a Mutualist/Market-Socialist.

Vaush doesn't debate other creators anymore. His controversies have accumulated to a point where he is essentially walled off from that for various reasons. Too many creator's alienated and controversies fueling rhetorical weaknesses.

I'm not talking about debate really though. What I mean about his ideological honesty is that he is willing to anger his own audience, Hasan is very careful not to do that.

There is 100% such a thing as bad publicity. Your post here is a literal example of this, you actively avoid him and there are many people who feel the same way as you.

Hes not forced to say edgy shit, he just doesn't put much effort into not saying edgy shit and he naturally wants to. He doesn't police his own words, for instance, his frequent use of the word "retarded" and his joking about hating women. He also constantly blurts out shit and then his audience points out he misspoke and he gets annoyed and says "You fucks know what I meant". He has no anxiety or shame about his wording of things. There is no worry on his end about saying something shameful, he's literally said that he thinks shame is a worthless emotion.

He doesn't "mask" essentially. He is not careful. Maybe to some degree that helps his internet career because of reputation of authenticity or something but it also frequently pisses off his own audience. The controversies have lost him subs, they've severely damaged his ability to engage with other creators because he has either alienated or outright insulted them, which means he doesn't debate anyone anymore, left or right.

Its not on purpose. Hes not playing 12D chess to boost his youtube career. He wouldn't be a leftwing creator in that case, he'd be a rightwing grifter instead. A lot more money in that.

Hasan avoids arguing with leftists because hes a cowardly clout monger and can't debate for shit because he isn't really that smart and is captured to some degree by his audience.

I don't hate Hasan, I do agree with a lot of his takes but hes fundamentally a less ideologically honest person than Vaush. Vaush doesn't give much of a shit about pissing off his audience, he does it constantly.

Hasan has drama/beef with H3H3 & Lonerbox.

I don't know where you are getting the idea that he purposefully generates controversies. He lost subs during most of his controversies, not gained. And it has down stream negative impacts on his channel other than just sub count.

He is just very careless.

You can get that in a sub-community.

I don't know how likely commercialization is on a platform developed by communists. Seems kind of unlikely.

It was literally the opposite of an echo chamber. It was full of people with vastly different ideologies and included even "sub flavors" of said ideologies. Liberals/Neoliberals/Social Democrats, Conservatives/NeoCons/PaleoCons, Libertarians/Anarcho-Capitalists, Communists/Socialists, Monarchists, Fascists/Nazis/Strasserites/Neoconfederates, every flavor of Anarchist. Hell, it had an unironic Anarcho-Primitivist somehow (yes they got the "But you're on the internet, doesn't that make you a hypocrite?" a lot).

It was a dedicated invite-only debate arena on Reddit. Moderated by Libertarians, who might have fucking stupid beliefs but apparently make for very relaxed moderators.

Maybe one day when my survival doesn't depend on the virus being there I will.

Lightly edited copy paste of my response elsewhere:

Creation’s are not that of only the individual creator, they come from a common progress, culture, and history. When individual creator’s copyright their works and their works become a major part of common culture they slice up culture for themselves, dictating how it may be used against the wishes of the masses. Desiring this makes them unworthy of having any cultural control IMO. They become just as much of an authoritarian as a lord, landlord, or capitalist.

In fact, I’d go so far as to say that copyright also harms individual creators once culture has been carved up: Producing brand new stories inevitably are in some way derivative of previous existing works so because they are locked out of the existing IP unless they sign a deal with the devil they’re usually doomed to failure due to no ability to have a grip on cultural relevance.

Now, desiring the ability to make a living being an individual creator? That’s completely reasonable. Copyright is not the solution however.

"Thing is, land ownership also served a purpose before lord's/landlord's/capitalists decided to expand it to the point of controlling and dictating the lives of serfs/renters/workers. "

Creation's are not that of only the individual creator, they come from a common progress, culture, and history. When individual creator's copyright their works and their works become a major part of common culture they slice up culture for themselves, dictating how it may be used against the wishes of the masses. Desiring this makes them unworthy of having any cultural control IMO. They become just as much of an authoritarian as a lord, landlord, or capitalist.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that copyright also harms individual creators once culture has been carved up: Producing brand new stories inevitably are in some way derivative of previous existing works so because they are locked out of the existing IP unless they sign a deal with the devil they're usually doomed to failure due to no ability to have a grip on cultural relevance.

Now, desiring the ability to make a living being an individual creator? That's completely reasonable. Copyright is not the solution however.

I suspect your assessment is at best subconsciously biased and at worst in bad faith. You'll need to elaborate on the mechanism of how they'd "keep copyright as restrictive as possible" in a world where it is not possible to copyright AI generated works.

Mine is a virus and it's somehow gotten into my BIOS.

Please let them implode.

I want Lemmy to have niche content. I'm tired of being a bitter asshole about politics and news on here. I want to gleefully distract myself while my country burns, not be ultra depressed about it because its constantly in my face.

I hope generative AI obliterates copyright. I hope that its destruction is so thorough that we either forget it ever existed or we talk about it in disgust as something that only existed in stupider times.

Be mindful of the smug "Lemmy Culture" hipsters, they'll eventually weed themselves out or self segregate though as more normies flow in.

I welcome the masses.