Globulart @ Globulart @lemmy.world

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1

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368

Joined

2 yr. ago

Uninterested in the argument itself bud, happy to discuss the awful methods used in their arguments though. I literally checked the wiki page to even know what holodomor was, that's how little I know and I'm not interested enough to debate with people that seem to argue with spittle flying from their mouths.

The first sentence is "While scholars are in consensus that the cause of the famine was man-made, whether the Holodomor constitutes a genocide remains in dispute." Wikipedia is hardly a rock solid source of course, but obviously there is some debate, so it really doesn't seem like a black and white argument as stated. But as I said, I'm really not interested in debating that. I'm literally just pointing out the toxic arguments that happen here so unbelievably frequently.

Advising someone that they should refrain from debating full stop is just cunty behaviour, however right or wrong the person they're attacking was. Attack the argument, not the person.

I'm very happy to be wildly wrong in your eyes mate, it makes no difference at all to me and people's perceptions are their own to have. Reddit has some right wing subs obviously, it's a platform with hundreds of millions of users and allows for easy engagement. People of all sorts will use it but show me someone claiming its heavily right wing and I'll show you 10 more who believe it's heavily left wing. In fact just ask Google if its right wing and most results will be along the lines of "why is reddit so left wing?"

I will say that I thoroughly appreciate the tone and structure of your arguments though (maybe with the exception of accusing me of crying, that does let it down somewhat). It's exactly that structure or argument which I feel is missing all too often and at the very least when I read your comment it didn't sound like you were bright red with anger. So thanks for that :) x

I agree and that's kinda the problem, I thought lemmy would be the place I could replace reddit with, it's just not what I'd hoped it would be and for a very left leaning platform doesn't seem nearly as accepting as I'd expect.

That's not always the case obviously and even today I've had a discussion about distros as I was fed up not knowing what they were, people were polite and helpful explaining which is great, but that feels like the exception rather than the rule when I'm just browsing comments.

I feel like the reddit api drama was a huge opportunity for lemmy to grow but it shit the bed a bit (or rather, the users did collectively) and people like me have left in droves. Reddit has always been circlejerky and it's probably the worst thing about it, but that almost feels like the MO of most lemmy instances.

There's good and bad obviously, I'm not saying lemmy is a desolate wasteland where all users are coders who berate anyone who can't write in python (probably an awful example, not a coder), there's just an awfully strong feeling of "if you don't do what we do then you're wrong" in my opinion.

Ultimately I'm here 5months later so I don't hate the platform by any means, but I'd be nowhere near it if reddit hadn't been so greedy earlier this year. Not enough users and not enough breadth of topics to be properly engaging for a simpleton like me.

Appreciate the info thanks mate, I'm not really interested in using it tbh, I was just curious.

My PC gets used to play trackmania during boring meetings at work and not a lot else these days. Simple and easy with next to no thought or maintenance is what I'm after so windows is fine for me.

That's a great summary and completely explains it, thanks bud.

And I presume Arch is one of the more (if not the most) popular distro for PCs? Just because I see it referenced all the time

Ok after 5months here I have to ask, what the fuck is a distro?

Welcome to lemmy.

It's an interesting one this. My wife's mum is Iranian and my brother in law is Pakistani and I've heard (so take this with a metric tonne of salt) that families that emmigrated from middle Eastern cultures are often much more strict that those who didn't.

This is simply because the community in the country the emmigrated to is much smaller and more isolated so doesnt allow views to slowly shift as easily as in a large group where you can more easily find like minded people if there's a point you don't agree with.

But like I said, I've only heard this so maybe it's bs, I've never visited either country myself so it's literally just another's opinion. But I found it interesting and it made me think a bit more about how hard it must be to feel like you belong in a country different than your origin. Obviously we (the west, generally speaking) have the benefit of seeing comfortable Christians in comfortable situations who are able to more easily challenge the traditional beliefs, but I wonder whether a typical Christian family who emmigrated to a non Christian country a generation or more ago would be more strict as a rule.

Yeah it's funny that this reads as argumentative when it actually goes even further in supporting the point they replied to.

Like I said, I'm not interested in the debate. Just pointing out the horrible discourse that is seen way too often here.

"They" who dive into adhominems includes you too bud, just from the last couple comments you made in this argument you said the following:

Let me give you some advice on debating or trying to discuss things. You should refrain from it.

Just a straight up nasty adhominem attack

Lol no wrong like confidently wrong.

This one is interesting because the whole cause is debated (though generally you're on what most scholars consider the wrong side, whether that's right or not I have no idea or interest though). But you state your point like it's a black and white fact, when it largely depends on your own opinion of which sources you trust. >

I'm used to kiddies like yourself.

Another adhominem attack, "lol child! I don't have to take anything you say seriously"

Honestly just pretty shitty discussion all around, from both sides.

Reddit is pretty far left too mate, less than here because it's a bigger pool of people that doesn't hound anyone (not as badly anyway) who doesn't fit the classic mould of the "typical user", but overall left nonetheless.

I think what you've discovered is that lemmy is more of an echo chamber for YOUR beliefs than reddit was, and people enjoying feeling like their opinions are validated and praised, so you've had a better time here but you may not be more informed (arguably less, as fewer people are challenging your thinking).

Have a nice day anyway mate :) x

Yeah mate go nuts, I've been called plenty worse just today and been amused by it.

I am talking to both of you, your comment just happened to be the last in the chain.

I read the argument and thought "jesus fuck this place is basically unbearable".

Honestly I've seen plenty worse on reddit too, but also SO much better. There are obviously loads more users so the worst is worse than the worst here, and the best is better than the best here. The point I'm making is that the average interaction here is worse than reddit, that famously circlejerky echo chamber hivemind. Yet if I don't fit the mould of a lemmy user it seems I'm a villain 80% of the time so that description could just as validly be levelled at lemmy too.

An argument descends to ad-hominem attacks so unbelievably fast so unbelievably frequently. It really is no surprise users are dropping like flies at the moment and I feel I might be another one soon enough.

Not that you care, I hope you have a nice day regardless, take care :) x

It says a lot about the place

I agree, that's kind of my whole point.

Why did you delete the example from this post bud?

You know, the one where I called someone an "entitled renter". I thought it was a decent example tbh, even if it WAS framed entirely out of context to make me sound like I was attacking all renters (of which I'm one).

You know what? I'm back in, this whole discussion is exactly what I was missing. Thanks dude x

It's all good bud, ironically enough this post is the most I've enjoyed lemmy for weeks. Proper in depth discussion is all I want, with people who have opposing views and might make me think about my own.

Yeah that's probably one of the biggest barriers to growth unfortunately, which is a shame because it's also potentially one of the best things about it.

With reddit I can just subscribe and unsubscribe to subs I like or don't, it feels like (comparatively) a lot of work to achieve a similar thing here and even when you've nailed it it's yet more work to have a discussion because users are spread so thin.

I think the sad reality is it's just not for me. Ironically this whole thread has been about as enjoyable as I've ever found lemmy though, actual engagement is what I want instead of outright dismissal and this thread is the most in depth discussion I've had in 5months here.

Honestly mate I think I understood about half the post.

I'm not trying to be dramatic, I'm literally just calling it as I see it.

How many months I commit to leave? What?

Adjust what? My opinion?

Being offputting is exactly the criticism I'm making about lemmy and it's current problems. This comment is to my comment what my comment is to this post (if I've understood that part correctly).

Beo?

I feel plenty light mate. I'm pretty amused by the reaction to be honest, particularly the irony being accused of redditor behaviour by someone who literally went through my posts to make that point.

I'm just slowly realising that lemmy isn't what I wanted it to be, I.e. Reddit without the greed.

Maybe this wasn't the post for my comment but it's done now and I stand by the point I'm making. This joke post does highlight the biggest issue with lemmy imo.

It's funny because it's true I guess...

The problem for me is simply lack of users to get a good discussion going on anything that isn't tech or socialism.

I enjoyed it at the start when lots of people were trying it out as an alternative to reddit, but every day I get closer to sacking it off completely because there just isn't the content or users to support the discussions I'd like to have to kill 20min here or there.

I guess my problem is that "make your own" sounds great in principle but when every group makes their own they each become echo chambers for that group. I also haven't bothered fully understanding the fediverse and what I can do with it so that's on me obviously.

I just want an easy to use discussion forum for a range of topics and opinions. And unfortunately it just doesn't seem like this is it.

Ah well.

A joke that highlights what I feel is wrong with lemmy, I'm really sorry for commenting though, people have taken it very seriously considering the main criticism seems to be that I'm missing the joke.

Why not just downvote and move past my comment without feeling the need to leave a comment?

I find it pretty funny that I point out the non acceptance in this community and lots of the reactions could be summarised moreorless as "Well then fuck you!". Is anyone seeing the irony?

No! I want the last word!!! xD

Sounds like something a redditor would say.... ;)

You're not wasting time on a redditor though, except to go through their post history to try and find something to meme them for. Again... Seems like redditor behaviour to me :) x