FabioTheNewOrder @ FabioTheNewOrder @lemmy.world

Posts

0

Comments

118

Joined

2 yr. ago

Given that this seems to be more of an interrogation rather than a discussion I will return to answer your questions when you will start answering mine.

How would you have handled the Corona virus situation in respect to the anti-vax crowd? Would you have left possible viral carriers free to roam inside your society or would you have placed restrictions on their rights? Should you have chosen the former option how would you have handled the backlash of the weakest people in the population unable to take the vaccine? In case of the latter option which restrictions would you have put in place for these anti-science people?

Looking forward to your reply

That should be a good thing in your view tho, no? Aren't you the one defending the presence of extremists into online platforms? Shouldn't Facebook and Twitter allow and even put under the spotlight these kind of ideologies?

Fuck it man, go for a full racist party then; why limit yourself to institutionalised racism when you can have ignorant racism directly?

Well, go and make friends then. Don't you like being friend with fascists?

The fuck has this anything to do with this discussion?

Maybe you didn't notice but the civil war has already started. Just because you don't see police forces and the army marching in the street it does not mean that there isn't a war being wedged against minorities and the rule of law. And you are fighting for the bad side should this be not clear. The side which attacked Capitol Hill to keep a fascist orange in power might I add

Someone living among us doesn't mean living with their rules or saying whatever they want against anybody.

Lol and lmao, go tell this to the people living in Florida and Texas my dude.

You centrists giving the same respect to any ideology passing before your eyes are really the most uneducated and useless people when talking about how to solve the extremism problem in our societies. You just argue to keep the status quo as it is or, even worse, to give more right to expression to people who would happily take this right away from you and everybody else should they reach any power at all.

Please keep your opinion to yourself, there are people working to solve problems, they don't need folks like you in their lives.

And that's a very bad thing, right? We should like fascits more, maybe they will then become our friends and we will all be able to live together peacefully in a perfect society.

Get fucking lost

Abso-fucking-lutely not. Nazis were not present during the German people re-education campaign following WWII and still the German people were able to be taught about the horrors of nazism quite well.

To shun and shame someone it does not have to be present during the discussion, you can just point at it from a distance and explain the reasons behind the social stigma from afar.

If you take away the nazis chances to promote their ideology in the "marketplace of ideas" you are not giving them more power, you are taking the little power they have away from them and you are forcing them to be enclosed in their safe space where they won't have any possibility to reproduce. Once they will die out of exhaustion or old age no new generation will be left to keep on their fight.

But it is you, with your authoritarian way, which would force them to follow medical advices and practices these people do not want to follow. I personally am only giving in in their worldview and I am allowing them to live with the consequences of their actions.

Besides, I see that you are completely ignoring all my questions and point against your reasoning so I'm left to wonder what is this conversation bringing to the table. As far as I can see little to nothing, we do have a problem but you are just arguing to keep the status quo as it is. Let me remind you that this status quo has brought us to the situation we are in now and that, to avoid worse outcomes, we do need to change something in our society. Leaving everything as it is wouldn't help in solving any issue as we are bring shown by the situations developing in red states and in countries around the world, so what would you want to do to improve the situation?

As a practical example, how would you have handled the COVID crisis and the anti-vax population? Give me a straight answer and no word salads please

Nono, I mean punching literal faces or relentlessly forcing people out of inclusionary spaces. Shun them as the Germans did with nazis post WWII, there is only good to be achieved with this tactic.

I would never punch my screen, I need it to shame nazis wherever I go.

The problem with isolating as you intend it is that the sole web isolation Is not enough. They need even more isolation from any aspect of civilized society to learn their lesson.

Bar them from schools, hospitals, streets, public spaces and see how quickly their number will decrease, both for changes of hearts as well as for natural causes

I propose to kill them socially. Shun them from any collective gathering and let them live at the edge of society as they wish. Are you antivax? Very good, no medical treatments for you. If you don't believe in vaccines I don't see why you should be using antibacterials or chemo treatments.

You don't like the laws protecting the right of minorities? Don't ask for law enforcement to show up at your house should you ever be robbed or attacked. Either you respect the law or you don't ask for its support when it's convenient to you.

Are you a dickhead to others and cannot live normally around people different from you? Go live in the woods with someone akin to you and you alone.

We would very quickly loose all the deadbeats who are a menace to a civilised society and we wouldn't even have to get physical with them.

How does this feel as a proposal?

Again, you are arguing to the opposite result of what an in depth analysis of the current world situation would lead to.

First of all I am not going to engage a debate in a dishonest way. Call it my upbringing, my character or whatever you like but if I do engage in a discussion with someone, like I am with you now, I do it with the premise that I don't hold the truth in my hands and that I can always be persuaded to change my mind if presented with a correct reasoning and with truthful data. This alone does not allow to follow your magnificent suggestion to use dirty debate tactics and false information to fight a wave of bullshit I would be subjected to should I entertain an exchange with a fascist, a nazi or a communist.

Secondly, it is impossible to fight in a logical way an argument which has been implanted in people minds through emotions. The only thing which can counter this seedling is an even stronger emotion and, as Germany has reached us with its re-education campaign following WWII, shun and shame are two perfectly fine instruments in this effort.

Thirdly, there is not an hypothetical in my phrasing (if they were to come to power) because they ARE already in power in states like Texas, Florida and other nations around the world and we can clearly see that, in order to preserve this democratically obtained power, they are dismantling the same democracy which gave them this power in the first place.

Lastly, your free use of terms such as "some", "someone", "a few" does present the issue as if it touched to a small number of people. May I remind you that 74 millions people voted for Donald Trump in the 2020 elections? Are they all fascists or nazis? Impossible, but still they are all ready to give a fascist the keys to the white house for a second term, so they are all part of the problem.

A problem which, I reiterate, cannot be solved by simply sitting down and calmly discussing with someone asking for the eradication of a minority for the betterment of his own life.

I wanna do it even here. It's that ok with you or are you too much of a pussy to fight back even in a virtual space where there is close to no risk for you as an individual? Or maybe you don't want to fight because you don't dislike this ideology so much...

Oh yeah, let's talk about millions of American voters (to make an example) being fucked in the head by the alt-right as "someone". Just a few people being duped and convinced to fight for an exclusionary ideology, what could go wrong? They surely would never try to organise a coup to forcibly take control of our governments, right?

Such a great position to hold, if you are deaf or blind

Plus, how would you have handled a swarm of uneducated swines refusing to partake in the most common cure to a viral disease, transforming themselves in the biggest biological threat to our societies? As a centrist I'm sure you would have fought to find "common ground" with the virus...

I think my position cannot be defended when my interlocutor does not engage with a civil and honest debate, using smears, fake news and logical fallacies to cover his lack of ground to sustain his position. Furthermore, the only viable way to maintain a power structure based on these assumptions it's to defend it via the use of brute force. Once these people will gain power there will be no way to avoid their violence repressing any opposition to their ideology, as we are seeing in all those states I cited in my previous reply which are now passing laws repressing the access to voter rights and limiting the people ability to join advocacy groups and activist parties.

So, no, I don't think my position is weaker than that of a nazi but I do recognise the need to apply the same violence they would use once in power to deny them the chance to make their ideology a reality for all of us.

Intolerance should be fought with intolerance since it does not understand any other reasoning outside of pure physical strength.

Can I naturally attrite my fists on a Nazi face? If yes I second your proposal, if not please stop with these bullshit points

Ah yes, let just allow a bunch of violent extremists bring their radicalising ideas to the mainstream through the use of logical fallacies and of fake news in an historical period where the investments in schools and higher education are stifled by most of the world governments, I'm sure nothing bad will happen.

Am I right, Florida? And what about you Texas, do you also think I'm right? Italy and part of Germany are sure I'm right, so this must be a great idea.

Fucking centrists