YappyMonotheist @ ArgumentativeMonotheist @lemmy.world

Trying my hardest to be civil in this uncivilised world.

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3 mo. ago

I understand, but what are we gonna do with them now? Especially those who deeply regret it? Just incarcerate the entirety of the armed forces for crimes against humanity, starting with those who served in Iraq til today? :/

Good correction, and I empathize with them too.

They're money worshippers and utterly plastic today because they got infected with the Western European/American virus, sadly. Not surprised they're not having babies, it comes with the illness. And you're probably right, but it'll take at least 2 generations and a strong fever to make Korea healthy. And who knows if America, instead of fighting proxy wars everywhere decides to focus solely on China and intensifies its presence in SK? Let's hope every neighbour makes peace and the troublemakers become more and more isolated.

No, you're picturing impossibilities because not every thought is rational, thinking they could become realities and being disappointed about it and finally blaming God for it. "If God were truly omnipotent he'd make 1=0 and A≠A!". And perhaps only those who were tested and showed, at least by the end of their days, that they were people who refused and would never cross (again?) major moral lines are accepted in a place with no lackings and no stress, which means Heaven can actually be entirely utopic. And if humans had lasers coming from their eyes from birth then we wouldn't have made it past our first cave and God would've just had to make humans like us so we could actually develop a little bit, lol. Thank God he didn't make us with lazerssss! 😂 Or claws or fangs, for that matter. At least we developed/were given moral codes that we can easily understand and willingly follow early enough in our civilizational development, cause we were dangerous and impulsive enough without them and now we have nukes... But of course He didn't, cause we might be stupid AF at times but He's on the opposite end, in a category of His own.

I understand the concept of the "God of the gaps" but this is not about that. Our origins before the start of the universe is not something we can ever study or know anything about! Of course it's a 'gap in our knowledge', but it's a fundamental one, not one that can ever be filled. You make a decision to be on one of two camps: "things exist" or "things exist, and that implies a Creator". That's all. And like I said, I don't think there's a 'final irrefutable argument' after that to make anyone believe in the Creator. It's just a personal decision.

And I don't believe in Christianity, it's a mixture of European paganism (including the winter's solstice now called Christmas) and some Abrahamic/Mosaic superficial aspects and tenets besides the most important one: don't equate anything/one to God. God is no man. I mean, if you've read the Bible (heavily 'corrupted', but the whole Roman Catholic religion was based in corruption and the co opting of a 'Jewish' religion movement), you'll see that Jesus doesn't even want you to call him 'good' (let alone God!), telling us that "only the Father is good". Disregard everything you know about God that comes from whatever Western understanding you have of Him. Disregard anything Paulian (the actual founding figure of Christianity, and to a great extent why it's a fucked up thing). If you're really interested: read Ecclesiastes, read at least the Sermon of the Mount, read the Qur'an and make your own conclusions. The wise and inspired said all the same things in the end ("fear God and keep His commandments", "Love your enemies. Bless those who curse you. Do good to those who hate you. And pray for those who hurt you and persecute you, so that you may be the children of your Father, Who is in Heaven."...) just with different accents. Nothing that's nonsensical belongs to God's system nor are they words inspired by Him!

I guess?

Maybe give an example for those like me rn, brainfarting a little bit? 😅

By default and, to a certain degree, necessity, not necessarily by conviction. And many are just POGs for life too (they help but at least they didn't go as far as killing). Let's be fair. I do believe that thinking about what you do is a moral imperative (THE moral imperative, perhaps), so they're still at fault even if their hands are 'clean'. And often they come back all mentally fucked up too, which shows an overall lack of foresight more than a desire to be evil.

Basically, they're stupid folk, not Kissingers, cut them some slack. They might repent and change their ideas/ways...

I'd rather live in SK (perhaps a rural area? Without too much of the soulless consumerism and asociality...), but overall accurate?

By default, many Westerners do accept that position, lol. But some don't!

Extra dimensional causes for creation, sustainability and order? Yeah, that's what we call God, lol. And it has to be One, for actual reasons (read Ibn Arabi).

And I know God could've made the human equivalent of calculators, but he didn't want to. There's no other way to 'make people that cause no harm'. I mean, many of my sad memories involve only words, should God have made people mute? You can forget the hands too, lol. He wanted intelligent beings with freedom. He made a sandbox and put us in it. Everything you're talking about is nothing but the product of human ingenuity (and even before knives we were using sticks and stones), and all the evil you've been subjected to is the product of the misuse of human freedom. We wouldn't even be able to reflect on things like we are right now if it weren't for it! You want a world in which PEOPLE are not people, and are disappointed in God, instead of being happy of being alive for free (and I assume you're enjoying it because you're an adult arguing online, not the e-ghost of a man who roped some years ago) and being disappointed in people misusing their freedom (if you're a correct person as I hope you are you see how easy it is not to be blight on the world). It's immature and the product of a misunderstanding of reality. And I didn't have a bully, I was the 'bully'! But I wanted to make it 'relatable'. And yes, you can 100% act right after a very difficult childhood. Knowing this is how I know the people who in their adulthood are still misbehaving are simply being willingly lazy and dgaf and/or hiding their heads in the sand in cowardice...

Eventually you'll reach a stopping point. The believers go a step behind the nonbelievers, a step into the unseen, that's all. Up until the beginning of the universe we're all in agreement because things exist, lol. And there's no contradiction in the definitions I'm using, that's just semantics and often due to the Frankenstein monster of inconsistencies that's Roman Catholicism and everything that came from it. You have to think about it without labels, the way the Greek philosophers did, and assume corruption in much of the remaining scriptures. And blood sacrifices? Are you referring to Abraham? God doesn't require blood, just faith and acts, we're not Aztecs! But if you believe in the unseen and in a judgment post death, you believe in life after death, and if you do and God Himself asks you to sacrifice your child, is it even a negative or are you, with 100% certainty, sending your kid to Heaven? Not that it's an easy pill to swallow, there's a reason Abraham's name is known today, but that's not because BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD, but it fits as an acknowledgement of our ephemeral nature and 'meaningless existence' and a test of faith (everyone dies in the end too...).

If you ever wanna talk about it in earnest, I'm up for a call. These convos are not very productive in this format, lol.

I'm talking about getting a read on the country, but yeah, rich fucks (the truly rich ones) worship money. 🤷

Depends on whether you're offering or paying for it...

Yeah, history was maybe a stretch, lol, the country kinda gives me the heevie jeebies tbh but some people do go to for instance Sharjah to live quiet lives, some perhaps even to Dubai for Islamic studies or whatnot (the ladies that are getting pooped on are from particular demographics and ethnicities too, because that's what these wild rich fucks are into, so I specified not to suspect everyone going to Dubai!) but the nightlife and private events can be and often do get haram AF 🤷😅

The mystery is why He created anything at all, sure, but our existence and everything that surrounds us is a net positive, a free gift that we can always opt out of if we truly wish and bring it back to the zero that nonbelievers believe in. Nothingness is just a rope away after all, right? Every truly happy person out there, believer or not, sees it as the gift it is. God didn't have to make anything, yet He did, and my life despite its hardships, created by other people, has been a very enjoyable experience. Now, the promise of God (yes, we're talking about Abrahamic tenets here) is that of eternal life as long as you keep Him in mind and act right (pretty small price for some, seemingly impossible for others). In that context, sure, God is inherently, supremely benevolent (first you get a life for free that can honestly be great and you can always opt out of... although you can also suffer and 99% of it will be due to someone else, of course; but then you get another one that depends entirely on your own deeds and nothing else). But even without it, how could I reasonably blame God for other people's amorality when, as a moral person or at least one who tries to be one, I understand it's not that difficult not to cross some major lines? That's it's entirely in their hands and they just decided they didn't give a fuck? That's the immaturity I'm talking about. You might as well complain to your parents that they brought you into the world, lol, right? There's no cause and effect chain here between my childhood bully, his abuse and God's will, there's just one between (for instance) his childhood trauma, lack of information on his situation, lack of self control, lack of reflection and, finally but perhaps more importantly, lack of empathy and 'humanity'. It's not 'unfair' that God endowed us with free will, it's just the way He wanted us to be, for whatever reasons He had, and whether we like it or not (another function of free will, lol) it's what we're left with. And the world could be close to utopia if dads raised their kids, husbands didn't beat their wives, Casey Anthony didn't murder her daughter, of course! All we can do is invite people into morality and then reprimand/banish/incarcerate them if they poop on the invitation.

For the second part: you're thinking of God as a thing. Or even worse, as a man, maybe (Christians do this, probably due to their creed's Roman origins, lol). God is not here, God is outside. The Creator cannot be constrained in its creation! It would mean that the creation came before the Creator, lol, which is obvious nonsense. And so this creation is at least a level beneath Him, and in the same way that Stan Lee is not carbon on paper and text bubbles, God is not matter nor energy. I can tell you that much with logical certainty. Whether you wanna stop at "things exist, at times in shocking order, and compose a chain of cause and effect that takes us to the beginning of time and space, and that's all I can say with any degree of material certainty", or follow up it up with "and I believe that, because of this complex existence, a 'higher level entity' with more complexity than existence itself made it and sustains it", is up to you. I haven't really found any connecting arguments or whatever, which is why I respect an agnostic position if you reach this conclusion, but maybe there are not and they are not necessary (belief can only happen in the absence of material information, after all [Jesus' "belief in the unseen"]). Also, there's only so many things you can communicate through words!

I know my propagandised 21st century schizoid European man!

There's a barrier between what we hear and how we feel about it (which will then be expressed in words and action) and that's the barrier of ideology plus self-beliefs (what we think). Plus, how mentally agile you are will decide on how quickly you reply (that's why folks with ADHD can say and do some wild, impulsive shit, for instance). By analysing our beliefs critically and fearlessly, and tearing down the ideological house of cards that causes us cognitive dissonance and impedes us from reaching the right conclusions in many areas of our lives, we can better deal with the world and how it 'makes us' feel. Going from "people are not to be trusted" or "all women are sluts (but somehow they will never date me)" to "people are fundamentally good, but flawed to different degrees and in different ways and there's no need to live in fear" and "women and men are sexual creatures, most women are not prostitutes and this is just the way I've coped with my lack of success in the dating world and with the feelings of worthlessness and despair that come with it", for example, will 100% help you better handle your emotions.

There's nothing to do about mental agility though, I've found, besides being permanently medicated/sedated or high on weed. And none of those sound healthy/ideal. 🤷😅

You don't know what the words that you're using mean.

Oh, it's just what I've noticed in myself, and others when I ask them what they believe in and the convo goes from there.

It seems that in the end it's one of two things... There's what's known as the Epicurean paradox or the problem of evil, where the confusion arises from many sources: forgetting about the existence of free will and the causal chain of events, semantic nonsense or even simple immaturity. This is the one that's just all fluff, all wind, but words can kick one's ass, especially if you live more in words than in reality.

And then there's the one that I respect a little bit more: while the beginning of the causal chain that we can conceive (so, embedded in/attached to space and time) is evidently not a source of it, but also since things exist today we can't deny the 'proto-thing' existed then I can somewhat accept you telling me that this essence we call matter and energy was always there and God is not necessary and etc etc. God has been understood for millennia as the 'prime engine' and unmoved mover, behind the universe and before it, the One that 'comes from nothing' that we have to accept because nothing comes from nothing and things exist. But many folk just skip that part and say "things exist, that's all I can see and that's all I will believe in". That's fair, but I better not see you making any logical inferences then, lol.

I don't disbelieve it but it doesn't mean OP is wrong.