Afghan schoolgirls are finishing sixth grade in tears. Under Taliban rule, their education is over
Afghan schoolgirls are finishing sixth grade in tears. Under Taliban rule, their education is over
If you raise your kids to believe in Allah you are setting up your grandchildren to live like this. Oppose religion, wherever you see it.
You can't just equate religion with fascism. Not that I think religion is ethical or even separable from fascism, but they aren't the same. Plenty of people practice religion without resorting to extremism.
What a pathetically ignorant statement
Lolbruh, have your sky daddy smite that guy.
But soooooo true. I rather be pathetic as WRONG
if you have a religion you're a baby
Can we have an exception for one religion? It’s called quantum physics.
It would be equally as effective as praying to an electron as it is to pray to skydaddy. Also you are very unlikely to send a country back to the dark ages by praising the wave function.
Fine, I tentatively approve of this religion. You have my blessing. Go with photon my son.
String theory seems more apt in that it appears to be mostly bullshit.
Fuck are you even on about???
Did you know that, mathematically, there can be a three-dimensional universe that closes in on itself? If you went in a straight line, you would always end up coming back to the same place.
Believe in math! Or more specifically, with whoever says they understand math!
Not all quantum physics is religion. Only the Copenhagen interpretation.
What about the Allied Atheist Allegiance, the AAA? Praise science!
I don't think that's a religion...but I'm not a, er, member
It's a hypothesis that we haven't managed to understand how to even test yet, come on
I don't care what anyone else thinks, this is pretty funny.
Well that's pretty reductionist, and bigoted. If you're going to judge Muslims by their extremists then you can't leave out the Christians and Jews. Hell Jewish extremists in Israel are committing genocide as we speak.
wtf do you know
The evidence of religion ruling people's lives is right in front of you and you act like we are drawing conclusions from nothing.
Religions are as dumb as the people who believe them?
casually thinks back ONLY these last five years
remembers all the excuses and acts committed whilst hiding behind religion
suddenly falls into a wormhole and lands in 1095
I dunno, seems fishy.
More than them.
Stuff.
Nice take.
Absolutely reprehensible and repulsive. Sick fuckers are so scared of women that they will not let them be educated. Fuck those backwards ass sexist monsters. Indefensible
religion sucks, conservatism sucks. that shit is so old.
No where in Islam does it say that girls are not allowed to study, what a fucking bunch of dimwits these people are..
Edit: Narcissist would be the right word here
rampant misogynists would be appropriate too.
Infact, in thr quran, Allah encourages everyone to gather knowledge.
These fuckers are making a mockery of Islam
The religulous are always the worst at all things, ironically including being religious.
not true
However, some scholars who interpret Islam as not allowing women to leave the house also interpret it to mean not allowing them to go to school.
These scholars might take this verse about the family of the Prophet to mean that this is the ideal example to follow for all women:
Koran 33:33:
Settle in your homes, and do not display yourselves as women did in the days of ˹pre-Islamic˺ ignorance. Establish prayer, pay alms-tax, and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah only intends to keep ˹the causes of˺ evil away from you and purify you completely, O members of the ˹Prophet’s˺ family!
Islam has onerous rules about female segregation and these could be used by folks to prevent girls from going to school. Aisha tried to circumvent the rules regarded segregation by using the adult breastfeeding loophole to make people her mahram.
Here's the origin story of adult breastfeeding:
Hadith:
Aisha having to go to such extremes to make people mahram for her shows that segregation was a really cumbersome problem and would possibly restrict the ability of women to leave the home to get an education.
The other wives of Mohammad were not onboard with this adult breastfeeding loophole and these verses were lost according to Aisha:
Hadith:
It was narrated that 'Aishah said: “The Verse of stoning and of breastfeeding an adult ten times was revealed1, and the paper was with me under my pillow. When the Messenger of Allah died, we were preoccupied with his death, and a tame sheep came in and ate it.”
Grade: Hasan
Reference : Sunan Ibn Majah 1944 https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah:1944
In my opinion Islam doesn't promote critical thinking regardless of gender. Click here for more on that.
Mohammad called women deficient in intelligence over rules that he himself had cooked up in this hadith:
Hadith:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
Once Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) of Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."
A muslim group like the Taliban could use this hadith to say that resources should not be wasted on women and that boys should be educated and women should be confined to the home to carry out household chores which are more in line with their level of intelligence.
In summary, girl's education is not prohibited directly but the segregation/hijab/hadith denigrating women's intelligence can allow some muslim groups leeway to restrict their education.
Hey There, I appreciate you citing sources and doing some research yourself! However I would like to clarify the things that I feel are wrong in your argument, I am on mobile so please forgive if the comment is not formatted well
The first thing here is that as far as basic human dignity is considered, both men and women are equal in islam, if anything is permitted for men, it is also permitted for women and vice versa unless explicitly stated otherwise (and innovation is a huge in sin islam)[1]
Nowhere is education banned for women specifically, and it is in fact encouraged (which means for women as well)[2][3]
This is also a nice segue into the fact that islam doesn’t really ‘prohibit’ critical thinking, it deals with supernatural things, nowhere in islam you are taught calculus (cringe analogy i know, but it gets the point across), specifically islam talks about life after death, which we have no idea of, it’s completely open to interpretation, so there is really no answer to what happens after death or why life exists in the first place. Also nowhere in the quran will you find absurd statements like the sky is red like the thread suggests, most of the things that it talks about are established science or real life experiences (sun rising from the east, fruits growing from plants etc), or advice on how to handle situations like loans, marriage, divorces and so on, every institute has some sort of set of rules it is governed by, and you can read through the quran and won’t find anything that straight up contradicts common knowledge or established science, you can just think of it as a general set of rules, also it tackles a lot of things that the arabs of that time dealt with so it alienates some people, but the general rules which apply to everyone are very ‘naturalistic’/real life based, so saying that islam does not allow critical thinking is just wrong imo
Now on the most sensitive issue, the status of women in islam, i would like to point out that any hadith or verse from quran should be taken in context of the time and place it was revealed in the case of quran or said/performed in the case of hadith, things can change quite substantially depending on time and location, there are multiple examples of this of which i’ll add a source later
So in the hadith you mentioned about degeneration of women, i’ll first point out some reasons as to why it was probably said
As for them complaining, Surah Al Mujadilah (The first few verses) specifically talks about a women who complained to the prophet about the way her husband acted, and she was not the one criticized, instead all men warned about sinful divorce and the compensations they will have to complete(You can read it here https://quran.com/al-mujadila)
Also islam talk a lot about women rights in various other places[4][5][6][7], hence maintaining a sort of equilibrium, both men and women are warned about their wrongdoings
On the last topic of suckling, it has nothing to do with segregation, it was a different matter which this [8] explains quite well
I would like to end by saying that there is a reason scholars exist who spend their lives studying hadiths and quran, they both have to interpreted carefully to not arrive at the wrong conclusions, your understanding of hadith isn’t perfect, nor is mine, the best I can do is try to explain the best I can, no society is perfect, there are of course of a lot of extremist on any sort of ‘following’, you will even find atheists who don’t want any person who follows any religion to exist, but it is important to understand there are good people and scholars as well, while our opinions might differ, the best thing to do is to try to adopt the good qualities from both sides
And really the point I am trying to make from all of this is that ‘organizations’ like taliban or ‘some’ governments don’t really represent Islam, for them religion is just a tool they can use to bring a ton of people on their sides who will not bother to fact check their claims or even bother to learn about their own beliefs, the perfect example of this is the fact that in photo in the article, you can see a male teacher teaching an all-female class, the more appropriate thing here is to actually have a female teacher, but I guarantee that the taliban doesn’t hire female teachers, which is just enough for any reasonable person to understand the hypocrisy of these (talibani) people
[1] https://sunnah.com/nasai:1578
[2] https://sunnah.com/riyadussalihin:1388
[3]https://sunnah.com/riyadussalihin:1383, https://sunnah.com/riyadussalihin:1385
[4] https://quran.com/an-nisa/19
[5] https://quran.com/an-nisa/32
[6] https://sunnah.com/muslim:1468a
Insightful!
It isn't about religion with any of these types. Rather, it's about religion being a tool they can use so that those who do think it's all about religion allow them to have authority.
Religion is the second worst plague visited on humanity. As you say, the worst is the lust for power over others. Religion, especially the Abrahamic religions, is second because it is uniquely positioned to facilitate the ambitions of those who lust for power. Pure violence can subjugate a population for a while, but real, long-lasting, self-regulating, trans-generational oppression has usually required religion.
Brother, that's literally the point of all religion. Religion is by definition a social institution intended as a tool for public influence.
Fucking incel losers, this Taliban.
learning is never over. No matter how hard authoritarians try.
I'll never forget, a few years into the war I asked what my Afghani colleague thought of the war. He told me "I hate the Taliban. When I was a boy they came to my village and slit all the men's throats. NOT a few of the men. ALL of the men." Leaving those people to suffer that regime was a greater crime than any we committed in the 20 years of occupation.
Leaving those people to suffer that regime was a greater crime than any we committed in the 20 years of occupation
This doesnt make any sense lmao.
We tried. We failed. So we stopped.
This is exactly what the alt-right Christian fucks want. I'm surprised that they don't realize how much in common they have with the Taliban.
No words to describe this stupidity.
My initial thought experiment on this was "could these girls migrate to the west on a visa to complete their studies and return?", and then I went down the rabbit hole of the demographics of Afghanistan. Of a population of around 40m, 46% are under 15, which is mad! That's potentially a lot of girls that will lose an education.
I wonder if a remote education could be the way forward? Let these girls study remotely online, assuming they have some form of internet access available, and create a worldwide visa that would allow any Afghan girl that can pass a standard entry exam to attend university. While we have no need to provide children from another country an education, this would probably be a low-cost solution, and one that I imagine many rich philanthropists would happily provide as a grant.
This solution sort of implies that the Taliban would allow it. Like the whole system over there isn't designed to crush these women as a form of control. It's not a lack of ability to educate them this is by design of their government.
For a visa like this to work you'd need the government and the Men of the country to be in agreement with it happening. That currently isn't the case. Providing a visa that almost no one will be able to use even if they wanted too would not only not help but could easily be something that's pointed to as "we're already providing a way for them to get educated and we don't have to do anything else."
True, under current laws women obviously can't travel without a man present, so it would basically mean sending a full family over, or at the very least, a parent or partner with them.
My main point of highlighting it was that it's not a small number of people, and that the young population of Afghanistan isn't anywhere near as small as I thought. A remote education might help, as it's something that women can access without having a man present.
It kind of makes sense because I bet the life expectancy in Afghanistan is not very high at all, so a higher percentage of the population would tend to be younger because of that.
there's also the whole issue of, you know, not letting them in cuz they have no education or marketable skills
we don't just let people in
This is the best summary I could come up with:
In September 2021, a month after U.S. and NATO troops withdrew from Afghanistan following two decades of war, the Taliban announced that girls were barred from studying beyond sixth grade.
The Taliban have defied global condemnation and warnings that the restrictions will make it almost impossible for them to gain recognition as the country’s legitimate rulers.
Last week, U.N. special envoy Roza Otunbayeva expressed concern that a generation of Afghan girls is falling behind with each day that passes.
Last week, an official in the Education Ministry said Afghan girls of all ages are allowed to study in religious schools known as madrassas, which have traditionally been boys-only.
In another part of Kabul, 13-year old Setayesh Sahibzada wonders what the future holds for her.
Analyst Muhammad Saleem Paigir warned that excluding women and girls from education will be disastrous for Afghanistan.
The original article contains 327 words, the summary contains 141 words. Saved 57%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Only on religion.
terrible
This is what you're fighting for if you're fighting for Hamas.
Ahh, the taliban, or the brave mujahideen fighters, of course, are being religious fanatics again! Who could've guessed! I'm sure when I look into this comment section, I'm going to see lots of people doing historical and contextual analysis, and maybe even some religious analysis, as to why this is the case! I'm sure I won't see bigotry directed at muslims in general for being the victims of politically conservative radicalizing oil wars! I'm sure everyone will have a totally rational opinion on this!
they spent decades fighting off two superpowers playing around in their backyard
FAFO portion of messing around with Afghanistan for decades.
Courtesy from Western civillization : supporting reactionnary elements world wide to exploit humanity...
An interesting idea. Was there no oppression before the West's influence was felt? Do you consider Russia to be part of the West?
An interesting response. Was there no progressiveness after the West's influence was felt ? I don't consider the revisioniste Soviet Union a part of the west but unlike the latter, the nominaly communist government resisted 3 years after the collapse of it's sugar daddy against a insurgency supported by the United State et co. including others islamist reactionnary elements and China while the US's puppet only lasted 3 days... with no interference.
Fucking moron, of course you’re from lemmy.ml
the taliban suck, for sure. that said, i’d have been thrilled if i’d not had to go back to school, even tho i got good grades. i certainly wouldn’t have been “in tears” more like having a tiny party,
You're not cute.
sucks to be you then
For the bigots out here, this is just the Taliban being incels. Nothing related to religion, if anything a lack of religious knowledge.
https://en.vogue.me/culture/afghanistan-taliban-women-school-ban/
nothing related to religion
You have got to be kidding with this one right? No one can be that dense
What's the relation? Nothing in Islam forbids female education.
The only point of contention you can have with it is that it enforces segregated male and female schooling but it doesn't ban female education. Since schooling was already segregated in Afghanistan there is no religious reason for the Taliban to close those schools.
The Taliban sadly has heavy elements of tribalism that are not religiously but culturally motivated.
Some people will do anything to lick the Taliban's boots.
Oh yes, it's "religion is not a at fault" right here.
As well described in another comment thread, Quran literally encourages everyone to learn, with no gendered distinction made.
You may easily write off bigotry on religion, but it's literally them doing some crazy shit and covering with religion that clearly says not to do this.
That's same as many American Christians literally ignoring the Bible, but this time way more consequential. Bigots will stick to religion as an instrument of power and hope nobody actually reads the sacred books, because they never said all those things. Should there be no religion, they'd use something else.
That is not to say religions are flawless. But bigotry just uses religion as a cover, it doesn't come from it.
That's just the multipolar world kicking in.
No. The world may be multipolar, but this is clearly a low point on the moral landscape.
Yes, that's the joke. When people say they want a "multipolar world" what they mean is that we should not use global institutions to influence global values and we should tolerate all sorts of human rights abuses in the interest of some odd idealistic parity.
I feel like when people say multi polar world, it still benefits China and America with their space programs etc but quite literally leaves Australia, NZ, EU and Russia in a pickle.
Just religion
USA should have never left and should return to end terrorism of taliban
Yeah because the twenty years we spent arming and training the Afghani military did sooooo much last time.
We should fuck off and stop destabilizing countries is what we should do.
But only the specific countries, right? …right?
I'm sure that millions of Afghan women would disagree with this. The nation building in Afghanistan was fucked from the start because it completely ignored Afghan tradions of life and government, and the Western-style government was horribly corrupt and failed to inspire any sort of loyalty, but just leaving was incredibly destructive too.
Being consistent in your isolationism is hard when you also have a big military huh? See Chinese naval build up soon to become a big waste of money without serious fast movement towards reeducation or alternatives e.g. large scale island fish farming and maybe brink style wargames simply for entertainment lol
Should have armed and trained the women tbh
Man, we spent 20 years trying to end it. Arguably we could have had success if it wasn't for the Iraq War interrupting things, but that's besides the point now - we don't have the political capital to go back in, we don't have a reason to go back in (as bad as Afghanistan is, oppression is not actually grounds for intervention despite what Bush will tell you), and we have limited resources. We have to use our limited resources on objectives that are obtainable, justifiable, and have a good outcome relative to investment. Right now, that's the Ukrainian War. After 20 years in Afghanistan? Afghanistan is at the very bottom of the fucking list, man. We can't just say "Here's another trillion, let's try again"
The guys we supported let the practice of bacha bazi happen. So with our guys we get the systematic rape of boys and with the Taliban we get what is happening now. There is no good side or lesser evil in this situation.
Should be raining switchblade drones on their leadership until they learn to behave. Let them play 13th century games on a modern battlefield without the courtesy of putting ourselves in AK-47 or exploding vest range.
Because if it didn't work the last 20 years the US was doing it, it'll work the next.
Drones are effective at killing people, but they're dogshit at killing ideology.
If you kill enough of the right ones, it'll work. When their leader's first act in office is to hose what's left of the last guy (and it will have been a guy) off of the floor and walls, I think they'll gain some perspective and make better choices. Can't be as polite and delicate as we were over the past couple decades.
You're right, what I've described above is the same as what you're talking about. Good job not noticing the differences which were clearly meant to mislead.
Yes, because achieving lasting positive change by killing people has worked SO well in Afghanistan of all places 🤦
Should have spent 20 years establishing islamic-free zones. You can only enter if you curse the prophet. Build up fortresses of civilization.
Or just the dark mosque where young men pray and literally learn to box with blindfolds in the dark to take out their rage.
Now imagine the next big movie, the transporter but next level badass, with beards, tattoos, swords, guns and straight up ICI the killer levels blood and Michael bay camera works. All in some middle eastern version of Bruce Lee but where the main character winds up fighting terrorists, Rambo, some random corrupt guy, his friends asshole neighbor and a whole gang of dudes who are all rapists or something strange like that, then there's some GTA bad guys, some Russian mobster guy, the Wagner guys, then the final boss is like Bin Ladens paedophile friend/cousin whose secretly an o.g traitor, and also an MMA fighter, a kamikaze pilot and a bomb maker guy who has an entire harem of children and even a secret chapel hidden in the mountains where he prays to an evil alternate Allah for more children or something.
The lore combined with the action would be enough to make a whole trilogy of badass
That's funny because they think the same thing about the United States, as clearly indicated by bin Laden's letter to the US.
Bin Laden was Saudi. And the 9/11 attackers, well, they very much put themselves in range of an exploding vest, metaphorically.
I'm just saying that he speaks in the exact same tone as this commentor and we should take note of the danger of this rhetoric.
Why should you give a shit what they do? I’ll hunt down anyone who commits acts of terror against the US, but I don’t give a fuck if these people want to repress their own people. It’s their choice how to live, not mine. One man’s repression is another’s freedom since religion makes people do dumbass things. They’re not worth the cost of a switchblade nor any of the other expensive shit we lobbed at that country for 2 decades. Once we had the guy that coordinated 9/11 we should have pulled out. They don’t want western style “civilization” they’re perfect happy (definitely not all of them) with their value and political system.
Guess I'm one of those weirdos who wants humans to have rights even if we don't share a flag or similar genitals.
their own people
This might come as a shock to you, but those are people just like you.
They're still worth saving even if they aren't from your country.
You'll understand when you're older, maybe.
While I disagree with your view on "happy" and "choice how to live", it is a very interesting discussion that a country never successfully developed democracy and equality without their own citizens fighting for it.
We can push our values all we want, but until people die for how they want to live it won't stick. Unfortunately America is declining for the same reason.
they’re perfect happy (definitely not all of them) with their value and political system.
The way I see it, there are three groups in Afghanistan worth considering. The first is the group you referred to with that caveat: the people unhappy with their value and political system.
The second group is those who are "perfect happy" (sic) with systemic oppression. They've built an entire religion, an entire way of life predicated on oppressing themselves. Those people, being "perfectly happy" with oppression, will gladly welcome the opportunity to be oppressed themselves.
There's a third group of people. A small group. So small you didn't even see fit to mention them. Like the first group, this small group of people truly despises systemic oppression. They hate it. They know it is wrong, and they never want to be subjected to it. But, like the second group, they deliberately employ it. They actively and systemically oppress not just the "perfectly happy" second group, but also the first group.
I see no problem whatsoever oppressing people who are "perfectly happy" being oppressed. They will relish the opportunity at being oppressed into a fine pink mist.
I feel no ethical or moral compulsion to segregate the "perfectly happy" from the "hypocrites". I think they should be similarly mistified.
Imagine looking around that classroom and thinking "All is right with this".
Not just "all is right". They see this and think "this is what God wants."
If this is what the God wants, he is a real dick then.
Allah wants.
"Welp, time to suck off the people who put me in this position!"
I'm pretty sure that's against the teachings of Islam.
I especially like that guy in the back. That could be the teacher, but I guess that it's someone who observes that the God is feared enough and nothing disallowed happens.
Makes me wonder how one makes such career choices, too
They must thank Allah every day for America's Oligarchy gifting the military industrial complex trillions of dollars of tax payer money, and occupying their country for decades, to end up stuck in the same prison as their parents... Instead of the darkest timeline — universal healthcare and climate action!
At least it was a chance. We certainly fucked up in Afghanistan but it's not like the Taliban came back from nowhere.