2y ago

Dozens of health organizations pledge ‘full support’ for federal ban on menthol cigarettes and flavored cigars

www.cnn.com

Dozens of health organizations pledge ‘full support’ for federal ban on menthol cigarettes and flavored cigars | CNN

Eighty national public health groups, including the American Heart Association, the American Medical Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics and the American College of Preventative Medicine, placed a full-page ad in Sunday’s edition of the Washington Post in support of a federal ban on menthol in cigarettes and all flavored cigars.

“The answer is clear,” the full-page ad says. “Saving lives starts by ending the sale of menthol cigarettes and all flavored cigars.

“Smoking kills nearly half a million people in the United States each year, and these addictive, deadly products are a big part of the problem. The FDA and White House have our full support to release lifesaving rules prohibiting menthol cigarettes and all flavored cigars.”

125 comments

When are we going to start banning flavored alcohol like White Claw and Mike's while we're at it
- Please don't joke this into existence
  
  It worked out so well the last time we tried.
- There ain't to laws when you cracking claws.
- You do have a point but the danger is far higher on the tabaco side. Priorities and such, we won’t see anything like that for quite some time.
  
  Is it though? I'm pretty sure alcohol is the most destructive legal drug there is. But prohibition didn't go so great last time so don't take that as a call to start banning sweet alcohol, I just disagree with the assertion that tobacco is worse.
  
  The real priority is to work to eliminate the power of public health to dictate private life choices.
I have maybe a cigar a month. Sometimes, a nice dipped cigar is enjoyable. It’d be a shame to just outright ban them.
- I sort of feel like this is the equivalent of banning white claws or even everything other than IPAs. During the summer I have a cigar most days. Once the temps drop below 60, I'm done with tobacco for six months or so. I don't smoke flavored cigars, but I don't like it for those who do.
- Welcome to the 'all drugs are bad unless I do them' mentality.
- Yeah, it's unfortunate. I understand it. The flavours do make smoking more enticing to young people, who might not limit themselves to one cigar a month like you do. But it does suck to ban something outright just because some people will misuse it. Mind you, nicotine is addictive, which is a pretty critical facet to this (though I don't think anyone starts smoking without knowing this risk).
  I dislike smoking in general and do want things that are good for society as a whole. But the logic of banning stuff like this seems similar to, say, banning fast food because some people will overeat (or more extreme, having calorie rationing so that people can't overeat on any kind of food). It's admittedly always a balancing act for how much danger is acceptable before we just ban it for everyone. Some bans using this logic are very reasonable, some aren't, and many are extremely debatable.
  I think I currently prefer the sin tax approach, especially since that best accomodates occasional usage. A hefty tax makes the dangerous thing less accessible to impressionable young people and helps pay for the social cost (though IIRC, smokers actually cost society less because they die younger, reducing the many medical costs of old age). Price influences people's choices, too. If healthy food is cheaper than unhealthy food, that encourages buying healthy stuff. But even sin taxes are imperfect, especially in a vacuum. They can make the cost of living higher for a vulnerable population. They need to be planned carefully.
- Tobacco is fucking horrible, but Menthol and other flavorings make it so much worse. They increase the likelihood of addiction massively.
  And is always the case in public health, you don't put in rules to cater to the edge cases, you put in rules to protect the majority affected.
  
  Because Prohibition worked out so well they first time. But yes, let's learn that lesson again, it's not like we haven't been having it reinforced over the last half-century with the War Ear Drugs.
  But this time it will be different, right?
  
  Tell me you're not a smoker without telling me you're not a smoker.
  You clearly have no idea how tobacco addiction works.
  Prohibition doesn't work. Mind your own fucking business.
  
  We need to ban public health
Urgh, when they banned them in my country it was with this same stupid logic.
Now I don't smoke (quit 15ish years ago) but this idea that anything flavoured somehow MUST be for the purpose of marketing towards children is insane. It manages to be wrong in two opposite ways:
One: This implies that anything with flavor is not for adults and everyone over the age of majority goes home to enjoy our grey flavourless mush.
Two: This implies that the flavors involved must be what appeals most to children. You know those menthol and whisky tipped smokes that all the children go nuts for.
This logic falls apart (both ways) when you look at any other legal market like booze, weed or vape.
It is almost as if after the US lost the war on drugs they want to try again on a smaller scale.
- The flavour makes it so more people start. So it is good to ban it.
  
  Does it? I have not been convinced. Also by that logic why should other not healthy things be flavoured? Why can you buy flavoured malt liquor, weed gummies, vapes or edible panties? With this same logic junk food should taste like sadness and regret for the future health of the children (won't someone think of the children).
  How this does not come off as ludicrous to anyone makes me question my own sanity. If smoking was such an issue and potential future addiction had to be stopped, banning the nicotine (you know the addictive) makes more sense then allowing the sale of the same addictive product as long as it does not taste minty.
  
  Have you ever smoked a flavored cigar? Yeah, it tastes just like cherries or grape or cognac or whatever... right up until you light it. And then it tastes exactly like tobacco. Just like all other tobacco. Trust me, flavoring tobacco like anything is not the part that makes "children" want to keep smoking it.
This is hypocrisy. Let people smoke whatever they want. We're not living in the fifties, everybody and their mother knows nicotine kills.
What they don't get is that not everybody has a wonderful life and wants to live forever.
There are bans in place for kids, and adults should have the right to decide what they want. Ban flavoured alcohol too then.
- You know, I don't really care what you smoke, but I care that it's communal. Somebody drinking wine, beer, a white claw, etc a few feet away doesn't immediately negatively impact my existence by depriving me of clean air ... or cause a friend with breathing issues a panic attack.
  Plenty of adults "decide" to smoke for kids by smoking with the kids around.
  Plenty of adults "decide" to smoke in the entrances of buildings, on busy sidewalks, in an outdoor mall, etc.
  Plenty of adults have "decided" to smoke because it's "safe" per some anecdote that they heard about a family member that smoked 3 packs a day and lived to be 90.
  It's actually all pretty freaking infuriating. One of the best things that's ever been done is banning smoking inside of most buildings.
  At the very least the age should be raised to match alcohol.
  
  We see fewer and fewer of the adults you mention with each passing day.
  I recall as a child seeing adults smoking all the time. Now it's a rare occurrence.
  At the very least the age should be raised to match alcohol.
  Jesus fucking christ, you people...
  
  At the very least the age should be raised to match alcohol.
  FYI it has been, on a Federal level (in the US), since 2019. Donald Trump of all people on Earth signed that into law. The legal age to buy cigarettes and to buy alcohol in the US is the same, 21.
  
  In some places it has been raised to match alcohol. NY is an example of that: https://www.health.ny.gov/prevention/tobacco_control/current_policies.htm#:~:text=Article%2013%2DF%20Section%201399%2DCC%20of%20the%20NYS%20Public,under%20the%20age%20of%2021.
  
  Sorry but it's a witch hunt at this point. And don't get me started about drunk people wanting to grope me every time I go out.
  Where I live, every workplace has a designated area where you can smoke. Indoor smoking is forbidden.
  The drinking age here is 16, so is buying tobacco. There really aren't that many smokers anymore. Most kids vape or smoke pot.
  Also if your friend has asthma, I don't know, stay away from smoking people you see? It can't be that hard.
  Also, I started smoking because I was bored. Now I keep smoking because I want to. I've actively stopped kids in my family from starting with it, so I'm not trying to say smoking is ok. Just leave us be.
- Ironically nicotine doesn't kill, bud. Smoking does. I get what you mean but there's no downside to nicotine other than addiction strictly speaking
- Sure I'm fine with both bans, alcohol not only kills yourself but many others too. The only reason it's not illegal is because it's ingrained in society.
  
  The only reason it’s not illegal is because it’s ingrained in society.
  What about the history we learned from when it was illegal?
  You... did learn from history, right?
People who think smokers smoke for the flavor are not in touch with reality. This will do nothing for public health.
- I think it will. It will drive menthols underground and they'll become more dangerous just like alcohol during Prohibition.
  
  You can just buy menthol infusers online. This law will do nothing
- Some start for the flavour which is the issue
Like every time this comes up, this is straight up racism.
If they actually cared about protecting children, they'd put quality control restrictions on the fluids used in vape pens to prevent popcorn lung and the like BECAUSE KIDS DON'T REALLY SMOKE CIGARETTES ANYMORE.
You know who disproportionately smokes menthols and flavored cigarellos?
Black people.
If they actually had something against smoking, they'd ban ALL CIGARETTES.
If they were actually trying to protect kids, they'd go after what kids are using.
They're going after the smoke of choice for large portions of the black community.
What does that tell you?
- Is it really, though? My country banned menthols ages ago, because it made cigarettes less nasty and thus easier to get into. Makes sense to me. We don’t have the amount of segregation here like in the US. At least not racially-based. Not saying there isn’t any, but it’s definitely not on the same level.
  
  Is it really, though?
  Unfortunately, historically speaking, in the U.S. it both is and has been.
  It is virtually impossible to get into any discussion involving menthol cigarettes in america without also getting into a discussion about the black community they were specifically marketed towards.
  Literally:
  Tobacco companies offered grants to HBCUs, sponsored hip-hop and jazz music festivals, and supported civil rights institutions including the NAACP. In the 1980s, industry-sponsored vans distributed free cigarette samples in the streets of Houston’s Black neighborhoods. The program would later expand to 50 cities.
  “A total of 1.9M samples will be distributed to targeted smokers in 1983,” industry officials wrote in a Kool Market Development Program document. “Sample distribution will be targeted to: housing projects, clubs, community organizations and events where Kool’s Black young adult target congregate.”
  An R.J. Reynolds executive actually said: "We don’t smoke that s—t. We just sell it. We reserve the right to smoke for the young, the poor, the Black and stupid."
  The reason a targeted menthol/flavored ban is problematic is that since something like 85% of black smokers choose menthols...
  ...that means this ban gives police ANOTHER free ticket to harass just about any black man, woman, or child/teen they see smoking. They'd likely get away with calling it "probable cause" which is twelve kinds of fucked up.
  If they cared about public health they would do one of two things:
  1: Ban all cigarettes
  2: Use awareness campaigns (THESE ARE PROVEN TO WORK, LOOK AT THE DECLINE OF THE YOUTH SMOKING RATE)
  Given the other viable options it is really, really hard to see this as anything other than a racially targeted decision.
If we don't stand with smokers and stop the American Heart Association now, then by the time it comes to force us to eat right and exercise, it'll be too late.
- I'd love to stand with smokers, but standing makes me winded.
- Have you run a marathon this week? No? Your medical insurance rates are 2x until you resolve this problem.
Non-menthol cigs are fine, we just can’t stand for the ones black people prefer.
- Didn't know I was black.
  
  congratulations!
- The only reason I ever smoked menthol was because of the rumor that they got you higher after smoking.
Sigh. The only good drugs are the ones I take.
Let's stop policing what people put in their bodies, eh?
You can't legislate morality, this isn't going to make people smoke less it will make people grumpy while smoking
When they banned flavored cigarettes where I am, they had to make a carveout for menthol cigarettes. The claim at thie time was, banning menthol was racist because black people mostly smoke menthols. Early aughts ftr.
- That’s hilarious. Next the ATF is going to bring back 4 loko because it’s ageist not to have preventable heart attacks in your teens.
Or you know, we could just regulate and test what goes into these products rather than create another black market for ones that will only inevitably be produced with even less quality overseas and imported
What the fuck?
I don’t smoke but isn’t flavored vape essentially the same and that is legal?
- Lots of places are banning those too.
  Which is really stupid, because they're also banning the zero-nicotine ones that aren't harmful and aren't addictive (though may be habit-forming in the same way as snacking or drinking any beverage). Also they're useful to people trying to quit smoking because even the ones with nicotine are far less harmful than smoking.
- is it?
  you have to invest quite a bit more than the $6 that a pack of menthol cigarettes is going to cost into a vaporizer setup.
  vaporizers also dont use tobacco, but nicotine, and have varying levels of nicotine - some formulations have no nicotine. there's also no tar or the 400+ chemicals involved with burning tobacco.
  
  $6 that a pack of menthol cigarettes
  Not sure where you are, but a pack is almost $25 here.
There are flavoured cigars?
- I don't know about "real" cigars, but they make the ones people roll blunts with in a bunch of different flavors like vanilla and grape.
  
  "Real" cigars tend to be flavored with things like whisky or other alcohols. But anyone who draws an arbitrary line defining what is and isn't a real cigar, it starts to feel gatekeepy, so I just live and let live. If someone smokes grape cigars and enjoys them, more power to them.
- I used to smoke flavored cigarettes. When they were made illegal where I live they were modified and re-released as flavored cigarillos(mini cigars).
  They were similar, but different enough that I no longer enjoyed smoking them.
- Blunt wraps are what these are mainly targeting I imagine (Backwoods, Swisher Sweets, White Owls)... BUT Acid cigars are pretty nice and the brand I always point out. They used to advertise in cigar magazines back when I would read them and would feature interesting rolling methods that leaned in to the name. (Cheaper end as far as cigars go)
Alcohol causes more problems in society than tobacco.
- This is true
Okay, hear me out here. We should ban smoking meat next. Just the stuff that has been marinated or seasoned. You know, for the kids.
It's like people in this thread don't realize how massively addictive nicotine is? I see addicts all the time try to excuse their addictions with every excuse in the book. I was addicted once. It took every part of my soul to quit that shit. nicotine is a mistake many make and don't come back from and pretend it their choice shit should be band. Just due to it's addictive nature. Banned for the same reason lotterys are generat only owned by the state. Shits is a a great investment. People will kill themselves or others to give you money
- Yeah, so why would they ban flavors and not nicotine? It seems that would be the play if they wanted to stop smoking (and start some riots).
  
  They don't ban it because most of Congress chews smokes or takes money
- It's like people in this thread don't realize how massively addictive caffeine is? I see addicts all the time try to excuse their addictions with every excuse in the book. I was addicted once. It took every part of my soul to quit that shit. caffeine is a mistake many make and don't come back from and pretend it their choice shit should be band. Just did to it's addictive nature. Banned for the same reason lotterys are generat only owned by the state. Shits is a a great investment. People will kill themselves or others to give you money
  (edit /s proud nicotine addict here)
  
  Caffine is not nearly as addictive as nicotine. And to conflate the too is a fat ass lie. I've quit both caffeine was three days of headaches at most. Quiting nicotine was my skin crawling and wanting to yank out my teeth for months. It's been more then two years and I still crave it. They are not the same you are exactly the type of nicotine addict I talk about. They are absolutely not the same
- I think people know it's addictive and generally bad, they just also know that prohibition usually doesn't work.

125 comments