Google’s claim that search users have choice is “bogus,” Microsoft CEO tells judge
Google’s claim that search users have choice is “bogus,” Microsoft CEO tells judge
Google’s claim that search users have choice is “bogus,” Microsoft CEO tells judge::Google's search dominance creates "vicious cycle," Satya Nadella testified.
Microsoft is hardly one to be involved in this. They're just as bad in different ways. But. As far as search goes, I think it's incredibly simple to change search engines but the problem is Google doesn't give users that choice up front when installing chrome but even if they did most people don't give a shit and will just use Google anyway.
And the fact that Chrome has a virtual monopoly on the browser market isn't going to help them either. Other than Firefox and Safari, every other browser is Chrome, and most web devs only test on Chrome.
It's IE all over again, and I'm a bit scared that iOS's app store restrictions are the only thing stopping Chrome from being a complete monopoly.
I think it’s incredibly simple to change search engines
It's not though, because the other search engines all suck. I have changed my search engine, but I still keep going back to google all the time because it's often the only way I can actually find the page I'm looking for.
Microsoft's claim is they can't create an accurate search engine because they just don't have enough users to have reliable data on which pages should be presented to the user. Google has better results because they have more users, and they will never lose that advantage unless there is government intervention.
I don't think Google should be punished for having a superior product. If users prefer to use Google then the market has spoken. Users can still use Bing even though it sucks.
I feel I have less of a choice in operating system than I do browsers or search. Just saying.
Modern Linux is amazing, just jyi
I've boarded the Linux train but not everyone can replace their OS nor troubleshoot issues, and good luck bringing your computer to a repair shop if you do run Linux. For the average person, they need someone to help them whether it's Windows or Linux.
Is it really a valid option for people outside the tech industry who don't know programming and who play PC games?
That's an honest question, not a snide question.
Funny they should say that, considering that Bing is deeply integrated into Windows, and users have literally no choice of another search engine.
And if you accidentally open edge you can't even close the application without going through the setup process.
They literally tried to force you to make a Microsoft account as set up and make it seem like you have no choice other than to make one.
Microsoft is more guilty than Google
Pro tip: enter no@thankyou.com and any password to bypass it
Couldn't you just kill it with task manager?
They don't realize how much they fucked up when they forced users to download the Bing app in order to use GPT in Bing.
They had the perfect chance to hijack Google by making users switch their default search engine in Chrome. But no, they had to get greedy as fuck, and now Bing is dead again.
They went all-in and lost. Who is using Bing search now? Nobody, people want to use Chrome.
I'd have probably used Bing for a longer time and maybe would have gotten used to it (only for GPT) if they hadn't forced me to download their app.
While i agree with them, i do think Microsoft is attempting even worse steps in turning bing/edge into the next google: literally cant open windows help links on any other browser, the task bar's search functions are bing only, popups about using edge instead of chrome, defaulting 100 file types into edge.
Those big companiew are shit. They all attempt the same stuff while blaming others for succeeding in doing so.
I do actively choose not to use Bing, though.
Real choice is when your OS sells you boner pills.
Microsoft has been making users' choices "bogus" since at least Windows 95.
Nah, they had some BS going on in DOS I'm pretty sure, too.
Yeah. What they did to DR-DOS, for example (though I guess that was still related to Windows).
Things could be better, but it’s a far cry from the IE monopoly days. It’s amusing to hear Microsoft complain. DDG and Kagi are both very good search engines and DDG is a built-in option on iOS. Kagi even requires a fee and it’s still blowing up in popularity. I think the real issue for Microsoft is nobody chooses Bing.
I use bing. They've indexed way more porn than anyone else.
Me too, they also pay me to use it
Hypocrite! Every time there's a Windows update it makes Edge the default browser again. Without the user asking. They should look in mirror!
It does? I don't recall that happening.
It sneakily asks for Microsoft to select the most secure configuration for your system (or something similar)
Which means setting edge and bing as default
Today I was working on a 2019 server. I clicked on IE to download Firefox and it asked me if I wanted Edge. I didn't want to do anything that might interfere with existing services running, so I said no. I took a phone call, and when I came back ... welcome to Edge, I'm so fuckin great - let's get started!
I've been doing this since the 80s, but this was a surprisingly fresh experience for me.
I've never had that happen and I'm always keeping up to date with Windows updates
No it doesn't 🤣
It just asks anytime you use a Windows app to use Edge.
You know what would be refreshing? If someone in business could actually hold themselves accountable. For literally anything.
A better search engine is out there, it’s just not free.
I love it. Been an early adopter and uses it all day long, and it just works. Being able to rank sites and getting search results that never show up on Google is worth every dollar. It feels like you actually see the entire web with this search engine again.
SaaS is almost as big of an issue as the tech monopolies that sell them, imo. I'd be more interested if it was a one time purchase.
Checked the link. I literally can't buy it as a European
Because credit cards are a scam I refuse to partake in, and they seem to only accept American bank transfers
y’all don’t have debit cards in europe?
They also accept cryptocurrency via OpenNode.
Click the small link below the plans on the pricing page:
For paying via PayPal or OpenNode, or without auto-renew, please click here.
Details: https://help.kagi.com/kagi/plans/payment-methods.html
Oh like neeva. Might give it a look. Right now i use brave search
I am on my trial period and am going to sign up when its over.
I’ve seen this mentioned so much, I’m gonna have to check it out.
Subjectively, it might be better for you. Sure.
It's objectively better, functionally, than Google. Results tend to be better, more accurate, less ad-riddled, and you're able to manually boost or block links to improve your own results.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
On Monday, Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella showed up at the Google antitrust trial to back the Department of Justice's argument that "Google used unfair tactics"—most significantly, default search contracts—to block opportunities for search competitors like Bing, The Wall Street Journal reported.
At the trial, Nadella said that in Silicon Valley, Internet search is “the biggest no-fly zone,” which the Journal characterized as "the hardest market to crack."
Third-party data showed that "Microsoft’s share of the search market has hardly budged" since adding AI features to Bing, but Google’s lead trial counsel, John Schmidtlein, argued that this was "a direct result of Microsoft’s missteps in Internet search," not due to Google's command of the market.
Nadella also expressed significant concern that emerging AI technology—rather than providing opportunities for competitors like Bing—could ultimately further entrench Google's dominance in search without the court's interference.
“In fact, if anything, I worry a lot that—even in spite of my enthusiasm that there is a new angle with AI—this vicious cycle that I’m trapped in could even become even more vicious because the defaults get reinforced.” He added: "This going to be even worse of a nightmare to make progress in search, because there's a new avenue" for Google to "lock up essentially" the "thing that feeds" AI models, "which is content."
Nadella told the court that to Microsoft, search is "a hard game to make any breakthroughs, but no one can accuse us of not being persistent."
The original article contains 618 words, the summary contains 242 words. Saved 61%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
I don’t feel trapped into Google for search.. the fact is their search engine gives me better results than everyone else’s. It is not like they are restricting my access to others.
A few years ago my work had Microsoft staff in doing an SQL assessment and the guy doing the works spent a good 5 mins trying to find a Microsoft article in Bing. Eventually he asked me to look away, switched to Google and found it as the top result. I asked why he requested I look away and he said it was against their rules to use Google lol
their search engine is better than everyone else's
It's not though. You never even get to see what the competition would be because they lock competitors out of the market.
I'm really happy about the case against them. This trial is uncovering a bunch of dirty tricks they use. They have far too much power and far too much of our data and are abusing it.
I think it really depends on what you’re looking for. Google tends to be better about technical stuff, but Bing did really well for me in the old “Bing it on” challenge if I was searching for pop culture or game related stuff. Google always won for code and troubleshooting.
I just created the summary! You can find it at https://lemmings.world/comment/2529327. (I tried to create the link for your instance but I failed miserably, for which I'm very sorry).
Dear Microsoft: I saw your shenanigans from Windows 3.1 onward, you gotta stop making me agree with you in 2023 because it makes me feel dirty. Thanks.