We can all agree on that, right?

No, lol 😂

Listen, socialism doesn't work.

Thank you for providing a great example of being confidently incorrect.
- Do you have any example of working socialism?

Honestly I don't even know where to start with this, so I'll keep it simple. Enshittification of Twitter, Reddit et al. is not necessarily a result of capitalism, and likewise Fediverse doesn't exist because "workers took the means of production".

For example the disastrous YouTube monetisation policy comes in part from a desire to keep the site "child friendly" (that's why swear words and gore are banned), and in part due to a need to follow existing copyright law.

Even if YouTube was run by a worker co-op, or was a state enterprise those two factors would likely still lead to stringent monetisation rules.

Monetisation rules are a direct result of capitalism. Profits are what motivates the decision making. In a post-capitalism economy it would be the needs and wants that motivates the decision making. One of the failures of capitalism is that we assume wants/needs has a correlation with profits, when clearly the enshitification demonstrates otherwise.
- In socialism nobody wants to work so good luck with your YouTube. There is a reason for proprietary software being most popular and often more feature rich. What we need is capitalism + more opensource work from us, regular people. Capitalism + opensource is way to go.

When you say "workers" do you mean the actual workers or some vanguard party of intellectual champagne socialists who make decisions on the workers' behalf?

Obviously they meant the former since that's what we're literally doing here. But even the latter would do a better job managing Twitter/Reddit than what they have now.
- Is it obvious though? MLs mean something very different from anarchists when they say "workers" in this context
Actual workers. If we made a society where people are taken care of, we'd find most folks would be enthusiastic about their work. Saying "people don't want to work" is often taken at face value when the reality is that most people do want to work, because it helps them feel a sense of purpose. They don't, however, want to be exploited/work under capitalism because that is soul crushing.
- Oh I agree completely with all of that. I just have been duped before by MLs saying worker ownership and what they really mean is their particular political party controlling everything. If everything is run by workers' councils with no existence of a vanguard party, that would be paradise for me.
  I would also go beyond saying that labor (not "work," as IMO the word "work" implies labor under capitalism) gives people a sense of purpose in that it gives communities a sense of purpose and connectedness. When we are all sharing in common labor toward the goal of enhancing our community and generally improving lives, we feel a more collectivized responsibility for one another.

You can tell that this audience is primarily American because they still defend capitalism, even after being shafted by it over and over. Careful everyone, big bad socialism is going to take your kids and your wife!

Don't dare dream of something better, instead keep swallowing the propaganda of the state and its controlling elites.

We are poor and our freedoms are exploited, but at least we're free!
- That's right, real freedom is being able to scream into the void without actually having the power to improve your material conditions. :)
Man socialism keeps sounding better and better they will even take those pesky wife and kids off my hands/s.
But in serious most Americans don't know shit about socialism our capitalism they live under. Dumb fucks look at you with surprise when you mention our highway system would be considered socialist program.
- Sounds interesting, what does that mean?
Finnish person here to say fuck socialism.

As if workers give a shit about customers.

They do when they work in a cooperative and have a stake in the business being successful.
- My question is always: so if me and 10 other people have a great idea for a business, where does the money to start it come from? Most businesses take years to turn a profit, so in this collective, are we all just pouring in our savings until it takes off?
  What if we all bust ass for 3 years, never getting paid because we’re building the product, we launch and start getting orders, and find that we’re getting a lot more orders than we expected, so we hire / bunch of people to help fulfill orders. Do those new hires all get an equal share, even though they weren’t there for the 3 years of unpaid R&D? Do they have to contribute money when they get hired for the share of the building that the rest of us already own?
  I’m all for workers rights, and workers standing together collectively to get fair wages and working conditions, but when people say “workers should own the means of production”, they can never seem to explain how that would actually work.
That would be an improvement actually, because the customers of these companies are not users, they are other companies looking to advertise or buy users personal data. The users of for profit social media are in fact the product, not the customers.
- Great counterpoint. This is what Reddit has been missing for the last 6-8 years: actual thought instead of regurgitation.
Workers don’t give a shit about customers because that’s how the incentive system is set up. Give workers the profits, you give them a good reason to give a shit about how clients feel.
- As well as ensuring those profits will keep flowing through their retirement, and you get the long term planning incentive.
I'm reminded by that guy on TikTok
"You just lost a customer"
"Good"
- You skipped over the part where he says "You think I own this business? You think I own IKEA?" implying he would care if he actually had any skin in the game which he would if his job operated as a worker co-op.

Lmao, social media sites would be insanely worse if the employees made all the decisions. They would all be left-wing circle jerks, as if you all haven't gotten unhinged enough.

Incidentally, I wrote a detailed article on the subject a while back https://justiceinternationale.com/articles/2020-12-02-we-must-own-our-tools/

Lmao, social media sites would be insanely worse if the employees made all the decisions. They would all be left-wing circle jerks, as if you all haven't gotten unhinged enough.

What are you doing trolling on this site then?
- Not trolling. Just wasting time chatting with people same as you.

Amazing how many people will step in to defend the ownership of everything to a small minority. They will not reward bootlicking yet yall continue.

Look, they're just temporary inconvenienced billionaires.