3w ago

Mark Carney calls for a 'Zionist' Palestine (yeah, he actually did)

rachelgilmore.substack.com

147 comments

We need to stand against genocidal wankers!
Hey zionists. You can chortle my balls.
When was this from, and what did he mean by that exactly? The context matters.
He's been way harder on Israel than Trudeau ever was.
- The clip is linked. He's talking about wanting a Palestinian state that's pro Israel and pro Israeli flourishing.
  I guess he means a state that's ok with illegal settlements and apartheid treatment.
  Maybe he means one that'll back up Israel's imperialist and aggressive wars in the region.
  
  I guess he means a state that’s ok with illegal settlements and apartheid treatment.
  Why would he mean that?
  I think it's more likely that he's idealizing a future where Israel and Palestine forget their history and trauma and suddenly become best buddies who root for each other's success because no one is interested in inflicting any more pain on the other. This is a pointless exercise in imagination but it's probably what he's going for with this statement.
  
  The clip is linked, and you went ahead and made up a bunch of shit anyway.
  What he actually said was "A Zionist... if you will... Palestinian State that recognizes the right of Israel to exist. Not just to exist but to prosper and not live in fear."
  Understand the the word "Zionist" is only a trigger word in leftist bubble world. You've been conditioned to think Zionist = evil demon Jew, but in normal circles it doesn't mean that.
  Why are you against there being a Palestinian state that peacefully co-exists?
- “A Zionist (if you will) Palestinian State that recognizes the right of Israel to exist. Not just to exist but to prosper and not live in fear.”
  So he just means a state that doesn't want to wipe Israel off the map. He may not be aware that "Zionist" is a trigger word in far left information bubbles.
  
  That's where the "when" comes up as well. 10 years ago the narrative about Zionism in the West was different.
So he wants them to switch religions and integrate into Israel?
So straight up he is a genocidal fascist then huh?
But did he though...?
Until the majority of Palestinians accept that Israel has a right to exist alongside a Palestinian state, there won't be lasting peace between the two. An incredibly poor choice of words, but the point is clear to those willing to listen.
- As long as israel pretend that the whole land belong to them there is no solution
  
  That is another part of the very, very complicated issue in the area yes. That does not negate the fact that change is required for lasting peace, and it needs to happen on all sides of the issue.
  
  It kinda does. They have an older claim than the Muslims.
- And you watched the news for the past year and concluded that Palestinians are the problem?
  I mean, of course they are. They murder their own children, they play sounds of crying babies so that other Palestinians come out to find it so they can snipe those idiots, they murder ambulance drivers and the little child that was a witness to that massacre, I mean Palestinians are evil, man!
  Oh wait, that was all the IDF.
  Yeah, Hamas is an issue and you'd have a point to mention that (because I can already see you furuously scribbling that) of it weren't for the fact that Hamas is (in good part) funded by Israel just to give the Israeli army an excuse to murder even more Palestinians.
  Nazis were the evil monsters of the 1940s. The Israeli government and army are the evil monsters of, well, the past 50 or so years? I remember the news reports fucking 40 years ago where the IDF would snipe murder young Palestinian kids because they throw rocks at them... All of these fucks should be swinging from the highest crane we can find
  
  And you watched the news for the past year and concluded that Palestinians are the problem?
  I have been studying this issue since the early 2000's. I did not just start watching recently like the majority of the loudest ignoramus' in the conversation.
  I mean, of course they are. They murder their own children, they play sounds of crying babies so that other Palestinians come out to find it so they can snipe those idiots, they murder ambulance drivers and the little child that was a witness to that massacre, I mean Palestinians are evil, man!
  Oh wait, that was all the IDF.
  The IDF is not a saint in this and that is absolutely obvious. This is what happens when leaders with genocidal rhetoric gain power. They use the military for their own purposes, which are usually genocidal.
  This does not change the actions of Hamas, or the Palestinians who support Hamas, and those actions do not justify the attacks on civilians.
  Yeah, Hamas is an issue and you’d have a point to mention that (because I can already see you furuously scribbling that) of it weren’t for the fact that Hamas is (in good part) funded by Israel just to give the Israeli army an excuse to murder even more Palestinians.
  They funded Hamas, and from what I know, no longer fund Hamas. Which was absolutely disgusting. They are also funded by numerous other countries in modern times including Iran.
  Nazis were the evil monsters of the 1940s. The Israeli government and army are the evil monsters of, well, the past 50 or so years? I remember the news reports fucking 40 years ago where the IDF would snipe murder young Palestinian kids because they throw rocks at them… All of these fucks should be swinging from the highest crane we can find
  Yes, we should deal with everyone who has committed war crimes.
  But you may not want to go back to Nazi Germany to hold your point about the "Peaceful Palestinians" though. In case you didn't know, the Palestinians worked with the Nazis and made a deal that stated they would help with the war effort if after the war Germany came and exterminated all of the Jewish population in what was then Mandatory Palestine.
- In what way occupying West Bank and preventing people from getting basic needs while trying hard to deport them from their land do you see it as a fight for their right to exists?
  
  I don't agree with the occupation or Israels current behavior.
- Victimblaming nicely folded into this comment.
  
  There are people responsible on both sides. I will not argue with you about that fact.
- The entire point of Zionism is you don't exist alongside Palestine.
  
  The point of Zionism was to establish a Jewish state in Jewish homeland.
- Carefully worded what-aboutism.
  The absolute irony of quipping about poor choice of words... Jesus.
  
  Do you believe in a two state solution?
- I mean, we're not at the point where they even have a say in it. They're busy struggling to survive because Israelis don't accept their right to exist and actually have American hardware to impose their will with.
  
  I agree, Israel has become a major problem. That does not change the problems that exist on the Palestinian side. Things can be wrong simultaneously.
- Honest question, what gives any country a right to exist?
  
  All rights are made up. They're just things that enough people thought were good, so we formed consensus on them.
  Thats not a demerit against them, though.
  
  International Law.

147 comments