Leaders of 'Uncommitted' and 'Abandon Harris' movements reflect on Trump's victory and early moves
Leaders of 'Uncommitted' and 'Abandon Harris' movements reflect on Trump's victory and early moves
Misner said it was a difficult decision to vote for Trump. He said the point of the Abandon Harris campaign was to punish the Democrats for supporting Israel during its war in Gaza, which the campaigners view as a genocide, and he hopes the Trump campaign will be more willing to negotiate with group leaders.
Vindication feels awful here, honestly.
“I think the biggest problem is that your messaging to Arab Americans can’t just be ‘Trump’s a fascist, Trump is Hitler. Big, scary orange man, vote for me.’ Part of being a part of the American political system is being able to separate yourself from your opponent and lay out a better vision. And she did not do that,” Abdelrahman said.
“She could have at least called for a ceasefire,” Khan said. (Harris repeatedly called for a ceasefire during her campaign, including during her Democratic convention speech.)
Ah, it's just like being on Lemmy!
“Even in politics, humanity should be the first and the foremost thing to to be respected, to be valued, right? And [the] Democratic Party clearly, clearly, for an entire year showed us they do not care about human life,” Khan said. “They do not care about their constituents, how they feel about the massacre.”
Ah, yes, humanity is the first and foremost thing to be respected, which is why LGBT Americans have been served to fascists on a silver platter as a protest vote. Peak humanity.
which is why LGBT Americans have been served to fascists on a silver platter as a protest vote.
If you are queer and have any way out, get out. If you can't get out, scrub your internet history as clean as you possibly can because they will hunt you down.
God I hate it but there's going to have to be a new underground railroad for pregnant women and queer and brown people...
“She could have at least called for a ceasefire,” Khan said. (Harris repeatedly called for a ceasefire during her campaign, including during her Democratic convention speech.)
Ah, it's just like being on Lemmy!
Oh great, this point again. They changed the meaning of the word ceasefire they were using. They tried to coopt the term into a meaningless one, while Muslims meant a ceasefire with actual effort and teeth behind it, meaning some sort of leverage, not the meaningless one of the Biden administration.
Keep in mind that Biden is still President and they completely ignored the letter they sent before about Israel having thirty days to change their human rights violations. So they clearly don't give a shit even though they don't even have to worry about reelection anymore so we can't blame that.
Ah, yes, humanity is the first and foremost thing to be respected, which is why LGBT Americans have been served to fascists on a silver platter as a protest vote. Peak humanity.
You can't feign outrage about people served on a platter when you did that exact same thing to people undergoing an active genocide. "First they came for the Palestinians, and I ignored them, because they're not white." Is that how the poem goes? You were willing to sacrifice an entire ethnic group so you can feel comfortable. Too many Americans were. Now we're all going to suffer together, and frankly, we're going to deserve it.
I wish I could upvote your comment more than once.
Harris didn’t call for a ceasefire. She called for both sides to voluntarily stop fighting and negotiate between themselves and that the US/Biden should do absolutely nothing at all to pressure Israel into making that ceasefire happen, while at the same time exerting maximum pressure on Palestinians to just surrender with zero guarantees of food or safety. In fact, she gave speeches that her support of Israel is unshakeable and they’ll give Israel whatever it needs, despite the majority of Americans in polling saying they favor conditioning military aid to Israel and Ukraine. She had a solid year of not just polling data but evidence that Biden’s policy was a failure and not just unpopular, and she just insisted on repeating his mistake. It’s like if a pilot is nosediving a plane and then a new pilot takes over but decides to keep flying exactly the same despite everyone telling to stop.
Gay people aren't more important than Muslims
Gay people aren’t more important than Muslims
It would seem that they are considerably less important than virtue signaling to Muslims for many voters, yes.
Good news! To the Republicans neither are important and they would gladly see both groups disappear, so a vote for them and a refusal to vote for the Democrats was just support for both Muslim AND LGBTQ+ genocide! Good job everyone!
Entirely missing the point, this has to be a troll
But queer people domestically are apparently far less important than Muslims in another country.
But I look forward to the people who told me "there won't be a genocide of queer people" telling me that the genocide isn't happening.
They just shut put their hands over their eyes whenever I showed them this after all...
I don't really see how the Uncommitted movement could have done anything differently. They had pretty simple demands: let a Palestinian speak at the DNC, meet with families of Palestinians, meet with our leadership. The Harris campaign ignored all of those requests, so in the end, they declined to endorse her, but still urged their supporters not to vote Trump or third-party.
Endorsing her just wasn't an option, given that she did nothing to meet them halfway. If your spouse is abusive, and you say, "If you ever treat me like that again, I will leave you," then you have to leave them if their behavior doesn't change. Otherwise, you are just inviting more abuse. If you tell a politician, "These are the minimum actions you must take to earn our endorsement," and they ignore you, you can't endorse them anyway. Otherwise, you're announcing your demands carry no weight.
The Abandon Harris (previously Abandon Biden) movement was more hard-line, and the Democrats were clearly too centrist and hawkish to meet their demands for an immediate arms embargo But the Uncommitted movement offered reasonable steps that the Harris campaign could have taken to win over Arab Americans, and she flat out ignored them. She is clearly to blame for not taking that offramp.
No. And fuck you for taking that position. That Uncommitted position doesn't 'punish' Harris, it simply ensures that a demagogue would be elected. AND just coincidentally, the early actions of that demagogue signals that Palestine simply won't exist in any significant fashion in a few years.
The direct result of your holier-than-thou' position is that Palestine gets fucked 10 times harder. Good job asshole.
Well, A) I'm describing the position Uncommitted was in, not giving my own. B) Who the hell are you quoting when you say, "punish?" That word doesn't appear in my comment, and I definitely didn't say that the Uncommitted leaders were trying to punish anyone, so what the fuck are you talking about? Are you actually arguing with me, or someone you made up in your head? C) Your entitled, sneering attitude is indicative of why Harris lost; telling Palestinian that Harris won't oppose the genocide, but vote for her anyway or else; telling teamsters she didn't need them to win; it turns out that was a losing strategy, huh?
By the way, I actually voted for Harris, despite her floundering, directionless campaign, but since I'm not a complete idiot, I want to understand people who didn't. Blaming other people for Harris's loss might feel nice, but internet temper tantrums don't win elections.
Anyway, I could also call you an asshole and tell you to get fucked, but honestly, I'd rather you work on your reading comprehension. You don't seem to have understood (or at least engaged with) anything I said besides, "Uncommitted didn't endorse Harris." Honestly, based on your comment, I'm not even sure you understand what the Uncommitted movement was.
People like you seem to think protesting against genocide is a bigger problem than sending billions in support of genocide. I can't tell if it's a matter of diehard party support above all else or simple delusion.
and you say, "If you ever treat me like that again, I will leave you,"
Finish the analogy to better fit this issue. You leave your partner for a MORE abusive partner. Why?
...except they didn't do that. The Uncommitted movement didn't leave her for Trump; they didn't endorse Trump and actively warned their members not to vote third-party because it would help him. They just followed through with their threat to withhold their endorsement. If she needed their help that badly, she should have done something to win that endorsement.
You put this so much better than I ever could have. Thank you for this.
If you live with an abusive spouse, but the house is literally build in an island surrounded by lava, A. Maybe your bargaining position is not that good.
B. Maybe, even if it's super shitty to live with the abusive, its still better that swim in lava, so you bite the bullet and wait the lava cool down
Yeah, except the Uncommitted leadership didn't tell their people to, "swim in lava," (if I'm following this tortured extension of the metaphor correctly). As I said, they opposed Trump, and even warned their supporters that voting third-party would help him, they just didn't endorse Harris because of her failure to make any of the very small concessions they asked for. She put them in a position where, as political leaders, there was no way they could endorse her without completely destroying their own credibility. If she needed their endorsement that badly, then it sounds like her bargaining position wasn't that good.
Elabed decided not to vote at the top of the ticket this year and focused instead on downballot races.
Elabed said she feels crushed by the reality of four years of the Trump administration’s policies toward Israel
😑
at the end of the day Democrats had their check writers to think about which is why they intentionally lost
Harris consistently had wins handed to her on gold platters and Harris repeatedly stuck her nose up at the platters
Democrats are not the party of the people or progressives but just Republicans with different coat colors on getting checks from the same places
Is your username a back-formation of Verdana, the font?
no just verdant
You have two choices for ship's captain.
One wants to paint the interior a color you hate. Like, it's the worst color you've ever seen. And she won't even listen to you about changing it.
The other wants to run the ship into an iceberg.
Hope you brought a life jacket.
That analogy is very flawed and, within the context of Arab voters, crosses the realm of "insensitive" and well into "fucking stupid" territory.
I'll start with the "very flawed" part. Harris didn't promise to "paint the interior an ugly color", she promised to sit and watch while the ship slowly sunk and maybe open a few small holes. She promised stagnation and yet more rightward shifting to people who are being driven closer and closer to poverty every day. Sure, she was better than Trump, but she still had massive policy and attitude flaws that can't be called "painting the interior a bad color".
Now for the "fucking stupid" part: Harris was promising to do exactly the same things Biden was doing in Palestine. She promised that and still expected—or thought she could do without—Arab votes. Votes from people who were losing loved ones and attending funerals because of the policy she completely unapologetically promised to continue. Comparing killing her voters' families to "painting the ship a bad color" is, as I said above, fucking stupid.
You forgot to mention that the current captain is shooting one POC person a day while it heads into an iceberg.
And the first choice for new captain is the current first mate who by all accounts will not change course, and keeps promising to uphold the shoot a POC person a day policy. And you're acting surprised they're not getting popular support from that group.
You don’t seem to understand WHY the Trolley problem is so difficult. It’s not a simple matter of “one side is quantitatively better” so you pick it. It means you are actively making the choice to harm people even if you think it’s better in the long run. If you don’t see why people found this choice difficult (and it’s universally agreed upon that one choice is better than the other) then you’re blind to the problem and haven’t actually spoken to voters. Talking down to people that they only can make one choice and that they’re stupid for not making it is not helpful and sets you up for failure next time too.
If I hear this crap one more time I'm going to make the news.
BOOoooOoOoTh SiIIiiiIidEs!!!1
And find themselves without fault?
Maybe Harris and the Democrats should've spent less time chasing Republicans and fascists for votes.
I voted for her btw. But is incredible how Dem voters repeatedly allow their leadership to be so weak and outt of touch.
And maybe people who repeatedly told others "don't vote for Harris" should claim some culpability for people not voting for Harris...
But it's amazing that every time I suggest that, someone has to talk about the faults of the Harris campaign as if you can't blame more than one party. It's whataboutism.
If you [general you] tell people not to vote for Harris and they don't vote for Harris and then Trump wins, you have some culpability.
not the voters' job to make themselves buyable
that is all on the candidates
We are not talking about the voters or the candidates here. We are talking about the people telling voters not to vote for someone and then pretending they had no culpability whatsoever when that person loses. Thank you for proving my point.
Yes let us hold blameless those who didn't give enough of a shit to piss on America when it was on fire. Your true colors show here.
You saved Palestine 🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳
People like you are the reason the democratic party refuses to learn anything from this loss, and will continue to do whatever their donors want at the cost of the will of the voters. Because they know that no matter how bad they get, they'll alwats have scared little followers waiting around to vote for them unconditionally and shame anyone who tries to use what little leverage they had to make a stand. If enough people had spoken up in the year before the election then maybe you could have saved Palestine. And stopped Trump from getting in. But you got played and still dont realize, and the Democratic leadership doesn't even care that they lost because they know Trump will make them look good again, and they get to launder another Billion dollars in 4 years time.
The real reason America deserves to fall to fascism is that you still have bootlickers in this very thread pretending the Harris campaign really did all it could to win, and it was the fault of the mean, nasty leftists online calling out her support for a genocide that got Trump elected.
Nobody is gonna learn a goddamn thing from this election, just like they haven't for decades. American democracy died before I was born, people are just realizing it now.
The Trump campaign went all out with a campaign to offend and alienate, ensure everyone knew he’s unfit to be in charge of getting out of bed. Yet somehow he failed to drive away voters in droves
Decades ago the corporatists and oligarchs traded in the currency of societal need and societal trends. Having exploited those markets and needing more, they’ve perfected leveraging societal stupidity. Stupidity is the currency that now powers capitalism.
The sad reality is that Trump actually went to Dearborn and Hamtramack and publicly met with Arab American politicians and promised to make their lives better. He was lying of course and he’s already admitting that less than a month later, but he went to those towns specifically because Biden very publicly snubbed them and this spring he detoured his campaign stops in Michigan to skip them completely because he refused to meet any Arab-American community members or politicians. They’ve been loyal Democratic voters and donors for decades and he just refused to be seen with them, and once Harris took over her campaign also refused to let them endorse her at the DNC and waited until the first week of November for her to even meet any Muslim leaders in Pennsylvania and didn’t even meet with anyone notable.
And people are shocked that Trump made inroads with minorities? This is all on Biden/Harris, they didn’t just ignore the community but it was like they were intentionally throwing insults at it in hopes of seeming cool to Republicans on the fence, and then offering nothing but “fall in line or Trump will win.”
Their comment contributed to the discussion. Yours sows discord while contributing nothing. You are the problem here.
This is America. I’m dumbfounded by the decision making skills we have, collectively.
Pollution, lack of education funding, lots of police, lots of jobs with below living wages, no healthcare
All adds up to what we have now
And again not the voters' fault we got got sold out for the check writers
I need anyone involved with these write "I will not enable a greater evil through my inaction" 69 times on a chalkboard
What you've done is basically said "I wanted steak for dinner, and got chicken, so I just forced everyone to snort draino instead!"
Don't worry, as this thread shows, the kinds of people who think like this have learned absolutely nothing, and are determined to learn absolutely nothing.
“I think the biggest problem is that your messaging to Arab Americans can’t just be ‘Trump’s a fascist, Trump is Hitler. Big, scary orange man, vote for me.’ Part of being a part of the American political system is being able to separate yourself from your opponent and lay out a better vision. And she did not do that,” Abdelrahman said.
Hey, maybe in 2028 the Dem candidate can run on repealing the national abortion ban. That feels like more than saying, "I WON'T enact a national abortion ban". Yayyyy /s
“He at least, at least came and spoke to the Muslims. He heard them and said, ‘OK, I will finish. I will end the war in Middle East,’ even if he didn’t say, you know, a genocide, but he said he will bring peace,” she said. “And that’s what the people wanted to hear, and that’s why he got the votes.”
"Just lie to us at least". Fuck me...
He's going to "end it" by rushing it to its conclusion you morons! Holy fuck! 🤦♂️
It kind of proves the point that the DNC should have listened to them instead of plugging their ears and walking past them.
Harris didn't even have to have any plans, but listening was too hard for them. Will they learn from it or blame others? Let's find out.
It rather proves how flawed the concept of democracy is. People can't be expected to make rational decisions. This is why candidates fill their campaigns with lies and cheap rhetoric. Because morons will believe it. Sure we'll all complain later about how "politicians always lie" but the people wanted that anyway.
Trump didn't listen to them, and he won their vote. So if anything, this proves they wanted someone more like Trump.
As opposed to dragging it out to the same exact conclusion?
Democrats have made it very clear that they're okay with the final solution as long as its spread out on a long enough timescale