US colleges revise rules on free speech in hopes of containing anti-war demonstrations
US colleges revise rules on free speech in hopes of containing anti-war demonstrations
As students return to college campuses across the United States, administrators are bracing for a resurgence in activism against the war in Gaza.
Keep the kids from speaking out. Definitely a good look...
Revoking the right to question the war, that's awesome. It's cool to violate 1st Amendment rights when the good guys do it!
Eugene V. Debs should have won every time, I have yet to see a bad take he had. He was anti-racist, feminist, and wanted to increase the right to vote to all Americans.
Who are the good guys? University administration?
The people pretending to educate citizens, then denying the citizens educating each other.
The people pretending that war is good when Your Favorite Team does it.
The people that act like murder is actually a complex issue.
1st Amendment only applies to the government. Unless these university admins are also members of government and acting in their capacity as such, then as shitty a move as this is, it's not actually a 1st Amendment violation.
Some of the universities mentioned in the article are public institutions. SCOTUS held in Healy v James that the 1st Amendment applies to public universities. So some of the actions could be considered 1st Amendment violations.
Fun fact, the 1st amendment also applies to any organization or persons receiving money from the government (without it just being through sales ofc)
"It's not illegal so that makes it cool."
I personally find the ides that if you want an eduction, which is required for modern living, you need to abandon your rights as a citizen. Mandatary and needed public goods shouldn't strip you of your mandatory and needed rights.
Students have their rights stripped, especially as a child, because some Karens and Kevins didn't want to be a member of the HOA, they wanted to be a school board member.
Bags searched and confiscated, protests shut down, students having harmless objects taken away out of a nebulous fear of "could maybe do somethig in the future".
Because removing people's ability to peacefully protest and demonstrate has gone so well in the past and not escalated to less peaceful activity. /s
So this is the freedom of speech that the US prides itself on?
We love talking about giving everyone democracy. We just do it at the point of a gun. You’ll take our democracy and like it.
Now we’re pointing those guns internally more often.
You didn't see the asterick did you?
signs cannot be displayed on university property without prior approval.
Fuck No
limits on the use of amplified sound
Fuck YES
The only thing that can stop an absolute mess on campuses is a cease fire that allows in food and medicine .
These rules are from hopeful admins this week
Anyone else thinking about Ukraine right now? I am.
They never had free speach to begin with. Insert line about they came for the xyz I did not speak for I was not xyz line. Welp now there is nobody left ur defend ur free speach what a shame.
Maybe try slowing down and proofreading your comment before posting it. This should be in Aneurysm Posting
I believe it was intentional.
This just seems to be how they type in general.
I know this source is garbage/useless because it rates the AP and The Verge exactly the same.
Elsewhere on Lemmy I have been pilloried for being a free-speech absolutist, but I don't think that most of these restrictions impede the free exchange of ideas (as opposed to deliberate disruption, which is not speech).
The University of Pennsylvania has outlined new “temporary guidelines” for student protests that include bans on encampments, overnight demonstrations, and the use of bullhorns and speakers until after 5 p.m. on class days. Penn also requires that posters and banners be removed within two weeks of going up. The university says it remains committed to freedom of speech and lawful assembly.
This seems entirely reasonable.
At Indiana University, protests after 11 p.m. are forbidden under a new “expressive activities policy” that took effect Aug 1. The policy says “camping” and erecting any type of shelter are prohibited on campus, and signs cannot be displayed on university property without prior approval.
This seems reasonable too. Note that the rule about signs applies only to attaching them to publicly-accessible university property. People are free to carry signs or display them in their dorms and on-campus offices.
The University of South Florida now requires approval for tents, canopies, banners, signs and amplifiers. The school’s “speech, expression and assembly” rules stipulate that no “activity,” including protests or demonstrations, is allowed after 5 p.m. on weekdays or during weekends and not allowed at all during the last two weeks of a semester.
I do disagree with this one. Allowing protests only on weekdays before 5:00 PM is not reasonable.
Protests don't really work if they're not disruptive.
Protests don’t really work if they’re not disruptive.
At the same time, any legitimate authority has a vested interest in minimizing disruption.
It's one of those things where I think neither side is inherently in the wrong, at least insofar as the question of "Protest vs. Disruption" is concerned. One must protest for what one believes is right, even if that protest must be disruptive to achieve its goals, and one must be prepared for a response from the authorities if that protest is sufficiently disruptive. You have to break rules, and you have to accept that the authorities are not necessarily wrong in trying to enforce the rules.
Short of saying "Only people I like are allowed to protest" or "Republicans can shut down the interstate highway indefinitely because they hate gay marriage", neither of which are particularly appealing, I don't really think that there's another option.
That this is all done by universities in the defense of a genocidal apartheid state, though? Not very morally ambiguous. This isn't a minor policy disagreement, or even a major one. This is support of corruption in US politics, the blatant sabotage of US interests abroad, and apartheid and genocide in Israel. Fuck these places trying to run interference for Israel.
The dynamic still holds as valid. It's just that the universities are shitty fucking authorities for taking the side that many of them have.
The right to a free exchange of ideas includes the right to disagree with protestors without being harmed.
This is a common idea, but its misguided. It requires that you can pressure leadership to change their behaviors by inconveniencing people and/or costing the leadership money, otherwise it has no mechanism for success. This has never really proven to be the case when they have the cheaper alternative of using the law to remove you.
What actually needs to be done is rallying support among the masses themselves for either a paralyzing general strike, or at least a show of voting force that threatens politicians with removal in the next election cycle. Neither of these goals is furthered by simple disruptive protest. A small minority cannot impose their will without first gaining a significant amount of support from the majority, so ultimately, behaviors that are sympathetic to those less politically-engaged will see better success than behaviors that are not.
I have been pilloried for being a free-speech absolutist
deliberate disruption, which is not speech
Do you even know what the words "absolute", and "speech" mean?
bans on encampments, overnight demonstrations, and the use of bullhorns and speakers until after 5 p.m. on class days. Penn also requires that posters and banners be removed within two weeks of going up. The university says it remains committed to freedom of speech and lawful assembly.
This seems entirely reasonable.
No, seriously. What do the words "absolute", and "speech" mean to you? For that matter, do you even know what "free" means??
Note that the rule about signs applies only to attaching them to publicly-accessible university property. People are free to carry signs or display them in their dorms and on-campus offices.
So people are allowed to protest as long as nobody from the outside world sees it? That's gonna be super effective! 🤦
For a supposed "free speech absolutist", you seem to be VERY opposed to people voicing dissent in ways that inconveniences anyone in the slightest.
Allowing protests only on weekdays before 5:00 PM is not reasonable.
But allowing them only AFTER that same time is?
Sounds like you're exactly as much of a "free speech absolutist" as Elon Musk and everyone else who claim to be one: not at all.
At least your username is (unintentionally?) accurate about you..
Your right to free speech is not infringed if people choose not to listen to you, or if they listen but remain unconvinced. On the contrary, you're infringing on their rights if you force them to listen, and especially if you attempt to extort them. (I consider "extortion" the right word to describe the behavior of protesters who deliberately cause serious disruptions unless their demands are met.)
Allowing protests only after 5:00 PM is reasonable because protests that take place after courses have ended for the day are less disruptive to the university's primary goal of educating students. Protesters are still left with plenty of time to express their ideas. Many protesters are going to be upset about this because they want to be disruptive, but that is not their right.
Protests are largely only effective if they’re disruptive. That’s kind of the point… a protest you can easily ignore isn’t going to change anything.
And the point isn’t really to gain support, it’s to force change.
Edit: To expand on this, there are much more effective ways to gain support; mainly through community interaction, conversation and education. Which should be seen as separate action vs. protesting.
Edit 2: Upon re-reading my comment I would like to amend my statement that the point is to force “change”. While change is the desired outcome, the point of protests is to force awareness.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but my objection is to the following argument that some people are making:
I'm saying that (3) doesn't follow from (1) and (2). The right to speak does not imply the right to be heard and obeyed.
As if these temporary rules will just not be permanent when the storm has blown over.
The office of sign approval is conveniently indisposed, sorry no signs on your demonstration :(
Stop eating L's as if it's reasonable.
Like most "free speech absolutists," you find all kinds of exceptions.
I seriously doubt you would be so "absolutist" if someone knocked on all of your neighbors' doors to tell them that you're a pedophile. Suddenly that whole "everyone has a right to free speech" thing goes away when their lies threaten your livelihood.
Or, hear me out, we could stop selling things that kill people to people who kill people.
In Texas, it's actually illegal for a government entity to do business with a company that boycotts Israel. Calls for divestment at UT and other schools can't legally be given any consideration because of our fucked-up state government.
Like: when I evaluate bids for the City, one of the sections I have to fill out by law relates to the bidder's stance on the Israeli government. It's insane.
Also from Texas, this has been driving me crazy for years. At least they are now against international law now. Cold comfort
That sounds like a blatant and extreme violation of the First Amendment.
Look. im from europe and even us havent figured that out(even in the not genocidal countries) but at least we dont send them money and weapons for FREE. At least our countries sell the weapons to genocidal countries.
Thats almost the entirety of the US GDP. We're three weapons manufacturers in a trench coat pretending to be a government.
That means no support for Ukraine either.
While the comment that you are replying to does lack nuance, the intent is clear. There is obviously a difference between murder and self defense.
You can support with food, medicine, and infrastructure. If we believe in killing something so dearly, we can send our own people. Harder to be a war monger if your own ass is on the line.