Millennials are 'quiet vacationing' rather than asking their boss for PTO: 'There's a giant workaround culture'
Millennials are 'quiet vacationing' rather than asking their boss for PTO: 'There's a giant workaround culture'
Every day there's a new article trying to shame workers for existing.
“bosses keep trying to come up with new words for ‘not doing extra work for free’”
I don't think it's bosses actually. I think this is the runaway click bait machine of "business outlets" trying to recapture the unexpected success of the whole "quiet quitting" thing they celebrated themselves for reinventing. "Stille Kündigung" is the literal translation for quiet quitting in German and it has been around for years, referring to an employee who has already decided that they wanna quit and mentally cut all ties to their jobs but haven't acted on this yet. But even in Germany, the business media kept yapping about 'quiet quitting ' as if it was something new and something to be afraid of...
Millennials are basically 80% of the average tech company. We can just call them “employees” now.
And of course they are.
Having to ask for PTO — also known as “unlimited PTO” — is the the shittiest employment practice.
Every time a recruiter tells me a company offers “unlimited PTO” I ask if I can please have regular old finite-but-actually-yours PTO.
I like our European rules, when we are guaranteed PTO by law and employers would often force you to take it when you accumulated too much unused off days. The system cares even for those who would not care for themselves.
Last year I was forced to take 2 weeks PTO just before Christmas so my company wouldn't get slapped with fines. Unexpected, but welcome. I just hadn't checked how many days were left unused.
I like our European rules as well.
I was made to take all of December off last year because I hadn't taken enough days. It's a weird feeling when your manager tells you that you have to stop working or they'll fire you.
That’s helpful, making sure the person takes it even if they’re too nice and would give it up for the company. Some people can’t negotiate well and this would be helpful for them.
Yea I’m about to immigrate to Germany, going through the contract with HR and all the clauses around leave and overtime were astounding. I thought I had it good in ANZ, but this is fantastic.
Unlimited PTO here, completely disagree.
I had so much more trouble at previous jobs getting approved for PTO, and it sucked ass trying to ration out my sick/vacation days to make sure I could be out and still get paid. Hell, I had to borrow against my next year's PTO at one job to be able to go on my honeymoon.
The current gig I'm at just wants to know when I'll be gone, and doesn't really comment on it. It's been great while dealing with kid/health issues and I've taken more PTO at this gig than I did at my previous couple gigs in 1/3 the time.
I think that has more to do with who you’re working for directly than anything else.
Even regular old finite PTO may not actually be yours depending on the state. My state does not require you to be paid out for it if you leave the job.
It's great - if you have a good boss.
Unlimited cons: need approval, don't get paid for unused time when you leave
Limited cons: needs approval, some places have use it or lose it policy for each year or you need to wait for days to accrue, limited sick days
Unlimited pros: unlimited, usually comes with unlimited sick days, don't have to worry about accruing days
Limited pros: get paid for unused days when you leave
I dunno, at my last job with unlimited PTO I took as much as I wanted. Obviously you want to make sure things can run without you, but that's manageable.
Unless you work someplace truly shitty that has unlimited PTO in name only, I think it's by and large how you approach it. Most people do themselves dirty with it for no real reason. For me, I generally just took time off for planned vacations and a couple other things, typically taking off 4-6 weeks a year, which worked for me and I found pretty reasonable. Was absolutely never an issue.
My current job accrues 18 days paid off over the year (increasing with time on the job to 24 or something like that), and it's mostly fine though honestly if I've used it all and I end up needing more time off, I'm probably just gonna take it off anyway. I'm still not 100% sure if it's gonna be enough since I'm taking a week off next week to pack up my house to move.
I've found that people that get fucked with unlimited was their own fault. Anxiety and not being able to detach. My peers are taking like 40 days a year 🤷♂️
Millennials, otherwise know as 28-43 year olds.
“Back in my day, we just bought a fancy red sports car for our mid-life crisis!”
A majority, 78%, of U.S. workers say they don’t take all their PTO days, and it’s highest among Gen Z workers and millennials
Younger professionals say they don’t ask for time off because they feel pressure to meet deadlines and be productive
Another article sensationalizing the term "millennial" for clicks. Millennials are in their 40s now.
My man. The vast majority of millenials are in their 30's. Not 40's. I get it, time flies, we're old... but not THAT old.
nah we are the new old. all the microplastics and pollution and shit they put in the food and water is aging us earlier. before long people will look 40-50 in their 20s.
It's not just younger people. Asking to use my well earned time off was a chore, and I had to justify it! Like.. WHAT THE FUCK. I work 12-14 hours a day and you think I need to justify needing some time off?
Meantime, I'm looking for a new job.
I had a job where we had an old fashioned paper office calendar. If we wanted to use PTO we simply wrote the days on the calendar. Our boss only wanted to know if multiple people from a workgroup were leaving on the same day or if it may cause issues (and he trusted us to figure that out). It was glorious.
My wife is only approved to take PTO once they find someone to work the shift. And they will not even try until the month before. We buy plane tickets 3-9 months out.
If you're buying tickets that far in advance, PTO is less of a request and more of "notifying you to fill those days".
Never met a single person who does this.
Bet its like the Tide Pod thing. Like 4-5 people did it and media sprung on it like its the hip new dabpen vape skibidi fortnite trend or whatevet
To be fair, if you did you'd keep that shit to yourself. Same with all the people that work multiple remote Dev jobs.
Not quite the focus of this article, but I've personally 'worked from home' while on kind of a soft vacation.
During Covid, found a great trail which had alright cell reception at the summit. I had a few days where I'd go hiking in the morning and work on my hotspot for near the top. Had a few weeks off and on working on a balcony in Florida overlooking the beach. There's definitely some out there taking full days off and doing nothing, but I feel like a lot of the mentioned 'time off without telling your boss' is probably closer to situations like that.
I haven't used all of my PTO for the last couple of years because I haven't really had the money to enjoy it. While I am salary and didn't get OT, due to traveling for work and some other oddities working more did generally result in my making more money indirectly. Once I have dug my way out of my debts (college, some medical, nothing that isn't manageable for me) I plan on taking every day I have and traveling as much as I can, and I want to get to that point as quickly as I can.
It also helps that what I do at work and what I do for fun look so similar that even coworkers looking over my shoulder at what I am working would have no idea if what I am doing is for work or myself, so I can get a fair amount of screwing around on company time in which helps prevent burnout.
I have "unlimited PTO" at my office, which sounds nice, but what it effectively means is that you now have to police yourself, to determine whether or not you're taking off "too much." Which ends up meaning that the vast majority of employees take less PTO than they're entitled to (or if they were just given a set amount to take each year), because they're afraid of being seen as a slacker, or someone who is taking advantage of the PTO policy. Since there are no set guidelines, it means it's left up to you to decide how fearful of unemployment you are, and how much you let that influence your vacation days.
Out of "Unlimited PTO," I take about 7-10 days off a year 🙃
You should call their bluff. I worked at a place like that and took a ton of PTO lol. It was fine. If they say you take too much then it's not unlimited so they aren't going to say anything because the other people still take less anyways.
I have “unlimited” with the handbook specifically saying we’re to take at least four weeks a year, and it’s the first time in my career I’ve actually been getting time off because of it. Everywhere non unlimited it was never actually approved and I’d get a lousy check every year for it. You know what’s way better than money? Time off.
If you and your coworkers aren’t using your benefit perhaps you all should discuss it and work out reasonable minimums you all expect to take and then take it. And don’t judge your coworkers for taking any of it.
I get 10 hours PTO every quarter (max is 80) I use every goddamm minute of it. I also get 3 weeks vacation which until they fucked us and made it recurring I am unable to use all 3 weeks by end of year. They also you can only take blocks of 4 hours at a time that also sucks.
They at least let us roll it over into the next year. So I will be holding up a shit ton so next year taking two vacations one in May and one in either in June or July then still have enough for October.
Fuck recurring vacation time it's bullshit.
And here I am with 35 days, which we're expected to take.
The first management job I accepted (as opposed to being promoted into), when discussing compensation a had forgotten to ask about PTO. I called the hiring manager back and asked him how much there was for the position and he said, "more than you'll be able to take."
I think that's pretty typical of middle management.
My company doesn't pay out for unused PTO, so my boss will periodically (but more often towards the end of the year) tell us to use our vacation days if we still have some. He'll even call us and basically beg us to use them if we still have some in October.
I used to feel bad about calling out or taking PTO when I worked hospitality, because I knew that if I wasn't there, someone else had to fill in. Now I do warranty repairs for major PC manufacturers, so if I call out or take PTO, some clients might be annoyed, but I'm not inconveniencing any of my coworkers. It helps that my boss is awesome and encourages us to use it or call in if we don't feel well.
This article is class war propaganda!
This is what the ceos think is happening so they print this to use as an example of why we need to come back to offices.
Maybe they're not nervous, maybe they know there's no point in asking for something they will never get in the corporate world of the 21st century.
I have a remote job with a defined "territory", which my job never requires me to explore (think regional manager that doesn't report to an office). Five years ago I asked my boss to move, they said no, I moved anyway and just never changed my address in the system. I have a permanent mail forwarding set up, and file an additional state tax form every year (one to reclaim taxes from the state my employer thinks I live, and one to pay the taxes to the state I actually live in), but other than that it has caused me no problems.
Fuck CNBC.
thats a shitty photo shop on that computer. Probably had to fake it because its a dumbass idea
Boy I'm getting super sick of these, "Millennials are doing this ____ , gen Zers are ruining that ____ , boomers are mad about ____" articles. Having one less thing to divide us as people would be nice right about now.
Unfortunately, it’s accumulative. I’m fortunate enough to have experienced leaded gasoline as well as a nutsack full of microplastics.
Sterility is good though.
Yeah man I hear you on this. One of my younger coworkers was like "OK boomer" when I told him something, I was like "dude, we are ALL fucking Americans, cut that shit out." There was a brief moment of lucidity in his eyes, and then it died. I don't think I got through to him.
You want to really blow his mind? Tell him that the original Generation X were people who were young adults after WWII ended.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_X#Terminology_and_etymology
I wonder when I'll be regarded as a person/adult.
When you commit a crime.
Like the movie Jaws, "When do I get to be an islander?"
"Never, you're not born in the late 40s to mid 60s, you'll never be an adult."
We may as well call ourselves the Peter Pan generation.