MTG Cites Antisemitic Fable Jews ‘Handed Over’ Jesus To Be Killed
MTG Cites Antisemitic Fable Jews ‘Handed Over’ Jesus To Be Killed
I'm Jewish and have been told very angrily that I killed Jesus more than once. It's fun.
You have people like this saying actual antisemitic shit over and over and over again and they are elected to office.
And then it's people that want the country of Israel, to at least pretend to try to not kill scores of civilians and they get called antisemitic.
That is entirely Israel's fault. I say that as a Jew.
My work often takes me to the Antwerp diamond quarter (especially the vault buildings) and the sentiment I see there is that your general Jewish person facepalms every time they hear Israel is in the news again and they aren't happy this makes life more difficult for them by simple association. Most of these people just want to live their lives and have no association, fealty or favor for the country of Israel, beyond the area it resides in hosting holy sites.
Dunno about the traditionally dressed Hasidic Jews in Antwerp though, I've been in and around the Diamond Quarter for 25 years now and I don't think I've ever even got as much as a hello or acknowledgement of existence from any of them walking down the street. They seem to be a rather insular bunch.
It is perpetually disappointing the extent to which so many people who claim to be Christians fail to understand even the CliffsNotes version of the Gospel.
Jesus' arrest was probably bound to happen sooner or later though. As noted Biblical scholar Andrew Zaltzman has often pointed out, Pontius Pilate was a law and order administrator, and Jesus was absolutely guilty under the law at the time.
Also, without Jesus' arrest and crucifixion, he wouldn't have died and been resurrected, saving everyone's souls. So shouldn't Marjorie be thanking Jews for that?
Jesus was absolutely guilty under the law at the time.
Guilty of what? Insulting the Jewish Religion and trying to reform it? That wasn't a crime in the Roman Empire.
Tbh, Jesus probably didnt exist anyways.
They started writing about him almost 100 years after his supposed death, and AFAIK theres zero proof outside the bible that he existed.
The earliest set of Pauline epistles have a consensus dating around 50, 20 years after the nominal death of Jesus.
The gospel of Mark has consensus dating to 70, 40 years after the nominal death of Jesus.
Multiple Jewish and Roman historians wrote about the existence of Jesus, who weren't all getting their information from the Bible. There is a long and well-sourced Wikipedia article on this.
This is patently false and easily disprovable with a cursory google. Please do not spread misinformation.
...and Pontius Pilot was one historical figure we can prove exists. In letters from Rome telling him to stop genosiding so many Jews. We are supposed to believe that if this really happened, such a guy cared what the Jews thought, and would give them a choice on who to kill? Really? He would have killed Jesus, the other guy, and the crowd for good measure.
It's clearly written to absolve Rome of any guilt since they founded the religion and all of the source material is more likely attributed to Mithra and Simon Magus.
Apparently, Christians are not the only ones who lack basic knowledge about the history of Jesus ...
This. Why don't these people understand that Jesus died for EVERYONE'S sins?
WE ALL KILLED JESUS. Accept Him and repent.
I never killed anyone though. That's just emotional manipulation.
I never asked him to do that and I don't particularly want to go to an afterlife filled with sanctimonious Christians, so I'll take the L, thanks.
If Jesus died for our sins then we’re letting him die in vain by not sinning.
sin for Jesus friend.
Na
You all can have your little LARP and potluck, but kindly leave the rest of us the fuck out of it. I get that the world sucks and thinking someone will give you cookies for taking all the shit rich folks pile on you day after day is appealing, but it's just excusing your own exploitation. I'm not about that life.
Make me, pussy.
Speak for yourself.
I don't understand this headline. If you believe the Bible how is it it a myth that the Jews handed over Jesus to be killed?
You have to pay attention, the headline isn't talking about the Jews killing Jesus, but rather HANDED OVER which is precisely what happens in Mathew 26:47.
There's no confusion about why Jewish leadership arrested and handed him over either, they were involved in a conspiracy to do that in order to get him killed. This is blatantly clear in Mathew 26:3.
I absolutely despise MTG but surely I'm not the only whose noticed that this whole article is twisted?
Because "Jewish leadership" isn't the same thing as "all Jews".
It wasn't back then, and it isn't now.
Implying that they are is exactly the reason why we are somehow not allowed to criticise the STATE of Israel without being labeled an anti-semite.
The Jews didn't hand over Jesus. A HANDFUL of Jewish state leaders did.
The Jews aren't committing active genocide in Gaza as we speak. A handful of Israeli state leaders are, and using their faith to justify it.
The Jews didn’t hand over Jesus. A HANDFUL of Jewish state leaders did.
This. Someone who had amassed enough of a following while calling out authority figures for hypocrisy, greed, and corruption is going to make some very particular enemies.
It's antisemitic to blame "The Jews" collectively for handing Jesus to the Romans. The people who handed him over were Jewish, but then, so were Jesus and most of his followers. Most jews at the time, and obviously all jews since then had no involvement in the matter. But there is a long history of blaming all jews for the death of Jesus.
If MTG had said "Jewish leaders" handed Jesus to the Romans, there wouldn't have been potential antisemitic implications. But she said "the Jews" did it, which can be interpreted as antisemitic.
Because it’s a grievance Christians love to bring up to justify and incite antisemitic violence.
There are no systems of power this act set into motion. There’s no way to resolve this grievance. It’s at its deepest core a call for pogroms.
Okay, but so what? People who are alive now and have had nothing to do with any of that (made up nonsense, btw) should tolerate these comments why? What’s even the point of bringing it up? She’s a U.S. congresswoman ffs, not a religious scholar. Her only point in doing this is to create an “other” to hate, and I hate that about conservatives the most. The underlying conservative identity is based on nothing but hatred of some boogeyman, which conveniently changes each election cycle or generation.
To MTG: you're white and white people owned slaves, so you're directly responsible for slavery.
I'd believe it for MTG. She certainly seems the type to want to return to "the old ways".
The amount of dumb in that assertion.
It hurts my head.
The Romans get a pass for some reason.
Realistically, nobody was going to blame the dominant culture that ended up spreading the plague, I mean, Christianity.
Well Pilate DID literally wash his hands of the whole thing. Plus blaming the Romans undermines the whole "If he did nothing wrong why didn't he comply with law enforcement?" narrative.
The Romans get a pass for some reason.
The Romans are gone and their Empire has been dead for longer than anyone has been alive. The Jewish people are still around and have their own State...which is continually in the news because they keep behaving like they still live in the Old Testament.
https://youtu.be/qmFhsts8WC4?si=Cgh_oQo71FcYIZc6
excuse to post some sopranos
It is exhausting, but at least it gives me an opportunity to laugh at this crazy lady, as long as I don't spend too much time thinking about all the other people who agree with her.
Is she thanking them? Jesus had to die for Christianity to exist.
Religion is the greatest evil that has ever existed, and has caused more human suffering than anything else. So I’m finding it very difficult to care that you’re hurt that she’s saying your fairy tale killed her fairy tale. You’re children, arguing over imaginary friends and running to the rest is us like we’re supposed to feel sorry for you.
We seriously need to ban religion from politics, policy making, and any matters that have to do with making rules for society. Religion should just be a personal matter, and never mentioned in public by people who need it.
Everything about Jesus is a fable so why call out this part specifically as fable?
Fableception?
So wait. Given the Republicans just ‘trapped’ the Democrats into voting for the stupid ‘working definition of Antisemitism’ as a federal guideline, can we flip the table and trap them into a vote to censure/eject her from Congress?
I’d bet there’s a non-zero headcount among the Republicans who’d be happy to boot her, and if not there’s a lot of headlines to run about the “GOP defends virulent anti-Semite in own party”
If we assume Jesus was historically real - let me be clear that I don't really care who was responsible for his death 2000 years ago. (which Christians believe was required for their own salvation anyhow).
I have never understood why anyone would hold modern Jews (or any Jews at all that weren't present and involved) responsible for Jesus' death.
Having said that, I have grown up believing it was more or less true that yes the Jews did kill Jesus. (But again, so what?)
This post spurred me to do some duck duck going. I found these two articles interesting. At least I can see the basis for it now. For anyone else coming at this with a similar understanding:
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/who-killed-jesus/
https://www.npr.org/2011/03/04/134264425/Pope-Jews-Are-Not-Responsible-For-Killing-Jesus
I will say that the first article does a pretty good job of setting up the case for why people believe that. (Unlike the second which kinda surprisingly acts like no one should ever have thought that in the first place.)
Again, even if every person involved in Jesus' death had been Jewish, and even if Jesus were the actual earthly incarnation of God as his son, I have never seen any basis to lay this at the feet of modern Jews. But now I know more about it than I did.
Same people who want to blame news are vehemently against reparations.
Yeah there's a weird dichotomy there - or maybe actually a consistency, but I came at it differently in my head even though I didn't mention it.
I also think the basis for so much opposition to CRT (as a lightning rod), the shit in Florida and elsewhere (trying to remove the racial component in textbooks from even things like the Rosa Parks incident), and otherwise denying or trying to hide aspects of US history that deal with how we treated black folks is because modern white folks (of which I am one) include a contingent (of which I am not one) who somehow think they are going to be held personally responsible if they admit all these things happened and continue to happen.
There's a heavy overlap (IME) between this group, and the group who also continues to claim modern Jews are somehow culpable for the death of Jesus. I feel like their Jew hating almost compels them to try pretending racism has been dead for decades or more, because on some level they expect to be blamed just like they still blame Jews today.
I think the biggest problem with Reparations is calling it Reparations. I'm a firm believer that generational impacts have been felt and continue to be felt by the black community after not just slavery outright, but Jim Crow, and racist influences on laws and mores that remain in effect today. I believe it's reasonable and ethical for our nation to make some attempt to compensate for that. I don't think it will ever pass while it's called Reparations. That term is as much of a lightning rod to the right as anything else you could name, IMO.
I would support of a reparations package, and would tend to vote for politicians who put such a package together or promised to do so. (making a lot of assumptions about what the rest of their politics would look like) But step one would be a unified party of Democrats willing to support it in congress, and step two after that unlikely step would be for there to be not enough R in congress to shoot it down. (also unlikely)
So I don't know what the details of a reparations package would look like, and I sadly think we'll never see it successfully navigate our political system, and worse, I don't think it's only because the kinds of folks who hate the Jews would come out against it. I think a lot of folks in congress would vote against it on what they felt were pragmatic or politically expedient reasons before it could ever stand a chance.
I don't know if it could be done by EO. That would be interesting to see.
Here's how I try to diplomatically look at it from the receiving end- If you believe in a world where your god has a plan, then part of his plan was to create Jews for the purposes of killing Jesus. Because of that, every Jew who ever existed, exists and will exist is only around so that Jesus' death would happen. Therefore, all Jews are responsible for killing Jesus.
And before you say it, no, apparently Jesus wasn't a Jew. He was the first Christian.
For sure - if Jesus had to die for Christian salvation, they should be treating modern Jews like their personal heroes if they must insist on linking them to the event.
So that there's no misunderstanding the Jews didn't directly kill Jesus, the Roman Empire did. The Jews of the time weren't universally response for Jesus death either, much less the Jews existent today. If that isn't enough Christians are missing the whole "Sons aren't responsible for the Sins of their Fathers" thing the Bible has going on.
With that out of the way...
The problem with that first link is that Jewish Leadership, who are the ones that conspired together to have Jesus arrested and delivered to a Roman Court, DID have two very good reasons to want Jesus dead and neither of them had anything to do with Heresy.
First, as the article notes, the Jews had a tendency to be unruly so anything that got the general population worked up would bring the Roman Legions down on them and Jesus was definitely getting them worked up with large crowds, loud arguments, and miracles all over the place.
Second, which the article completely skips, Jesus and his teachings were an existential threat to the Jewish Leadership of the time. His teachings not only undermined their Religion but if his teachings were implemented the whole Jewish power structure would become unnecessary and be dissolved. This is blatantly discussed in John 11:47.
Sadly the 2nd link is kinda worthless because there's nothing in it regarding the Pope's argument, just that the statement was made. Now I'd go read "Jesus of Nazareth', Part II" by Pope Benedict XVI but in a fantastic statement about the Catholic Church you have to buy the damn thing! I mean didn't Jesus kind of have a whole tirade about that?
Anyway, this isn't mean to be an argument. I just caught your post and was interested in the links so I thought I'd provide some feedback on them.
Anyway, this isn’t mean to be an argument. I just caught your post and was interested in the links so I thought I’d provide some feedback on them.
All good, it was an interesting read. :)
Plus, it was the Romans that actually executed him.
Why don't these people hate Italians?
Pasta.
On behalf of those of us who found Jesus to be a lackluster prophet, thank you. /s
A Gallilean philosopher and ex-slave was teaching a class on Paul, known Christian.
"Before the class begins, you must get on your knees and worship Jesus Christ and accept that he is the greatest deity ever, even greater than Jupiter Optimus Maximus!"
At this moment, a brave, patriotic, Centurion who had served 30 years duty and worshiped the Emperors every day stood up.
"Who is the son of god?"
The arrogant philosopher smirked and smugly replied "Jesus Christ, you stupid pagan"
"Wrong. It’s Augustus Caesar. If it was Jesus Christ, as you say... then why did he die pathetically on the cross instead of creating an IMPERIVM SINE FINE?"
The philosopher was visibly shaken, and dropped his chalk and copy of the Gospel of Luke. He stormed out of the room crying those crocodile tears. The same tears Christians cry for the conquered Gauls and Britons (who today live in such luxury that most even visit baths every week) when they jealously try to claw justly earned riches from the deserving legionaries. There is no doubt that at this point the "learned" Christian wished he had joined the auxilia and become more than a cultist preacher of barbarian superstitions. He wished so much that he had a gladius to disembowel himself with due to the shame, but he had none for he himself had always preached unconditional pacifism!
The students applauded and all joined the legions that day and accepted the Emperor as their lord and savior. An eagle flew into the room and perched atop the SPQR symbol and shed a tear on the chalk. The 12 tables were read several times, and the Emperor himself showed up and sentenced all Christians to die in the Flavian Amphitheatre.
The philosopher lost his tenure and was sent to the lions the next day. He died with a thunderous applause and was tossed into Tartarus for all eternity.
Ave, true to Caesar
[copypasta not mine]
Which brings up a question I've yet to have a Christian answer properly for me- Why did Jesus live and die in a backwater rather than bring his world-saving gospel to Rome?
I mean even ignoring the fact that Jesus never got around to telling the indigenous people in places like Australia that he existed and humans had to do it, going to Rome seems like it would have been the best place to spread the message at the time.
They provided a dramatic climax at the crucifixion.
Doesn't the antisemitism awareness act make criticism of Israel illegal? Maybe her reason for opposing it is stupid but it should be opposed.
Yes, the act itself is bad. This isn't really about the act.
Doesn’t the antisemitism awareness act make criticism of Israel illegal?
No, it's pretty toothless as a bill. It is concerning, but for the ambiguous attitudes it reflects more than the legal effects it'll have.
Part of me wants to make a joke about it being the Italians, but no, this is serious antisemitism and it cannot be taken lying down or joking.
Those of us who are not Jewish need to be preparing to fight the antisemites in whatever ways we must to ensure the safety and security of our neighbors.
Shouldn't she be more scared of us? We have a space laser and we killed God according to her. What would possess her to cross us?
Plus, we control all the banks. Let's set her bank accounts to zero!
They already would be if we forced her to pay back the $183000 in PPP loans she got during Covid.
Of course she did lmao
Never go full Mel Gibson.
Channeling her inner Mel Gibson
But if Jesus wasn't killed, Christians would be doomed, so why are you mad that he was killed?
Probably not doomed. Their god would just not sacrifice himself to himself to convince himself that people no longer needs to perform blood sacrifices to him to get themselves undoomed by him. Not much would change, we'd be having a pagan Easter with chocolate eggs and no religious connotations, and some people would burn a lamb or turkey every once in a while.
In my mind was MTG, "Magic The Gathering". And I was highly concerned what they are up to again.
I grew up in one church that loved to talk about "the synagogues of satan" and other "fun" stuff like that, so I don't think anything like that is uncommon (particularly in Baptist circles, but probably also outside of it). Some of the kids I grew up with would say "that's Jewish" for something uncool. Pretty sure there parents were full-on anti-Semitic white supremacists. This wasn't even in the south. Glad to be out of that shithole.
I grew up in Indiana, not the south and yep, that's how it was in Indiana too. I was just on the receiving end.
Although admittedly "that's gay" was more common for something uncool, whereas if someone was trying to get you to lower a price on a sale, they were trying to "Jew you down." Which is something I heard at a garage sale several times, so that was nice.
Although admittedly “that’s gay” was more common for something uncool, whereas if someone was trying to get you to lower a price on a sale, they were trying to “Jew you down.” Which is something I heard at a garage sale several times, so that was nice.
Holy shit, really? I always thought I lived in a shitty area for racism, but "Jew you down" was something that would get even someone's racist old grandfather horrified looks here.
The Bible is an "antisemitic fable"? Well thats half right.
According to the Washington Post, backers described the bill as designed to help the federal government crack down on the protests, which they see as having antisemitic elements. Some Democrats objected and argued it was an effort to restrict political protest.
The measure passed by a vote of 320-91 on Wednesday.
I will be very surprised if it makes it through the senate though.
Is this real? Because I'm pretty sure that was a South Park episode ....
Yes, it's real. As I said, it's happened to me more than once. In fact, I can remember one time where I was kind of worried about the level of anger for my personal safety, although nothing happened.
Don't underestimate pissed off religious people.
Never turn your back on
Yup. MTG is unironically a Cartman fever dream.
I'd like to not be reminded that this cunt exists and got breezed into Congress. We know anything she does and says is blunt catering to the psychos in the country.
Ah yes, the Christ-like compassion of MTG.
Not the ideal way to get her cancelled but I'm not complaining.
I thought you meant the card game...
Blame the website, I just had to use the same headline. There was another article with a better headline, but as it was from the Times of Israel, I thought that it would be better to not give them advertising revenue.
I wonder whats her stance on Israel/Palestine war after saying this stuff
"Christians" have been systematically mis-interpreting their bible for centuries.
Here is the Complete Jewish Bible's rendition of a particular phrase used in Revelations, which implies, clear as day, that "those who call themselves Christians, but are a temple of _________" is equally valid
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=call+themselves+jews&version=CJB
"Christians" read John, read that he called benJoseph :"rabbi", repeatedly, read that benJoseph called biblical-legalists "Hypocrites!" repeatedly, and ?won't? understand that John was criticizing the "Jews", ( with falsifying-quotes, which hadn't been invented yet ), and not Jews,
and instead of accepting that John was criticizing/attacking the false "Jews", the biblical-legalists who contempted everything in Isaiah & legally convicted benJoseph to get rid of him,
..they went around murdering Jews ( the Catholic Inquisition was waging war against both women & Jews, ttbomk ).and had the gall to be doing it, in their words, "in the name of the king of Jews".
Ideological-gymnastics, not proper reasoning, right?
IF the repeated-throughout-scripture claim that God/OceanOfAllAwakeSouls provides help at every change between Ages
( between Age of Taurus & Age of Aries was Moses,
between Age of Aries & Age of Pisces was benJoseph,
one might presume that benDavid would be now-ish,
& Metatron/Alpha+Omega would then be at the punctuation between the Age of Aquarius & the Age of Capricorn )
if that promised-help is true/real, then the false-Jews, false-Christians, false-Muslims, false-Buddhists, false-Hindus, etc, would be walking into a kind of trap: what they're sowing, they're going to be reaping, aka Karma, involuntarily & .. rather-long-term, right?
My apologies to you for being accused by "Christians", & others, who reject the actual-evidence available before their own eyes.
If it's any consolation, the rabid on this world, who worship their-own-ideology/prejudice,
instead of what the various scriptures were alluding-to,
would seem to be the vast majority of the world's population, which is going to be making the rest of this century turn into an ocean of attrition, on all sides.
Nobody's going to be escaping the lesson.
Any remnant of humanity who survives, is going to be profoundly changed by the experience of what's being set-up, these years.
_ /\ _
PS: I'm holding that real Jew is like Isaiah, with spirit-centered/anchored values,
& false "Jew" is like the biblical-legalists, or Netanyahu's ilk, with other "values"..
& real Christian is like some Christian medical-missionaries who just go live somewhere & help, letting their religion show through their devoted life,
whereas the false "Christians" are the ones who "read" the bible, then attack "woke" ( benJoseph was the "wokest" guy in the New Testament ) "socialist" ( benJoseph provided free healthcare to anyone who'd spiritually-earned it, & gave free food to thousands, right? Socialist as can be ) progressives.
While mom tried making me Catholic, when I discovered that I'd earned some Soul-memories of previous-lives, that weren't human lives, then all the Abrahamic religions were nuked, for me:
Empiricism's the only religoin that MUST lead to one's Soul, one's "kingdom of GOD, within", as benJoseph called it, one's CellOfGod.
Either empiricism works, or all Universe is just an arbitrary rigged scam, obviously, right?
_ /\ _
It's all fables.
Religion ruins everything.
I really do hate religion. Scourge against humanity.