2y ago

6 year old who shot teacher bragged about it

www.bbc.com /news/world-us-canada-66451768

The six-year-old student who shot his teacher in the US earlier this year, boasted about the incident saying "I shot [her] dead", unsealed court documents show.

While being restrained after the shooting at a Virginia school, the boy is said to have admitted "I did it", adding "I got my mom's gun last night".

His teacher, Abigail "Abby" Zwerner - who survived - filed a $40m (£31.4m) lawsuit earlier this year.

The boy has not been charged.

The boy's mother, however, Deja Taylor, has been charged with felony child neglect and misdemeanour recklessly leaving a loaded firearm as to endanger a child.

In Ms Zwerner's lawsuit, filed in April, she accuses school officials of gross negligence for ignoring warning signs and argues the defendants knew the child "had a history of random violence

The documents also mention another incident with the same student while he was in kindergarten. A retired teacher told police he started "choking her to the point she could not breathe".

208 comments

This boy choked someone and shot someone else before turning 7. Maybe a psychiatric hospital should be his home.
- A lot of focus is being justifiably placed on the mom, but the kid's actions very closely mirror allegations against his father, Malik Ellison.
  The [father's girlfriend] said she backed away to create space, but Ellison followed her, pushed her onto the bed, put his hand around her neck, and threatened to kill her, according to court records.
  That attack wasn’t the only time the woman claimed Ellison was violent toward her, court records show. The woman called Newport News police again on Sept. 21, 2021 and told investigators that Ellison held a gun to her head and threatened to kill her, according to court records.
  https://www.wavy.com/news/investigative/court-docs-father-of-richneck-shooter-assaulted-two-women-including-boys-mother/
- Fucking seriously... This kid has future murderer written all over him... I get that your brain isn't fully developed yet, but I don't think kids like him go from "literally a psychopath" to "normal adult"
  A normal kid might do something crazy in a fit of rage or emotion, but then regret what they did when they see the fallout from it. This little psycho boasted about it...
  
  but I don't think kids like him go from "literally a psychopath" to "normal adult"
  Not with that attitude they don't. Do you really think a 6 year old is beyond help?
  They need to be removed from the parents, given proper psychiatric help and support, and placed with a loving family that can help them manage whatever issues they have.
  I have a feeling that won't happen though and part of the reason for this is because people believe that small children cannot be helped.
  
  A normal kid doesn't see their father try to murder their mother . . .
- I might have a lead on any missing pets in the area
It's amazing to me how focused these comments are on the child being "evil" and not the environment that created this situation. A child isn't born believing that shooting their teacher is a viable solution to their problems. At 6 years old you're barely functional. For this to happen they had to exist in a profoundly fucked up environment with no moral compass and access to a lot of information, presented without good context, far above their age. Everyone responsible for raising this kid should be held responsible.
This kid needs years of therapy and support and a loving caregiver. Before the age of 10 children are incredibly impressionable and still undergoing very basic core development, until the age of 25 people are still in development to some level. There are many years ahead where this child can be saved from themselves. There is no reason to call a 6 year old irredeemable.
- It can be both sadly. Some kids are born not right. But will usually be ok with good and professional follow up and loving parents. But there are some kids born without the ability to emphasize with others and that never will get the help they need. And they become terrifying in their teens.
  
  Empathy is something that is taught. If some kid does not have the ability to have empathy for others, it's likely because they were neglected/abused during childhood, and were not taught such a thing as empathy.
  
  And their adulthood
- It's possible he really has no remorse
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder
  
  I'd like someone more knowledgeable to confirm this, but I remember that kids cannot be diagnosed certain PDs, so I'm not sure that this can really apply to a child. Also, PDs more often than not derive from childhood problems.
- After the kindergarten incident the child should've been given a psychiatric evaluation. It is possible he's got a "screw loose" but in the vast majority of cases like this you'll find there's violence in the home. The foster system sucks ass, but in this case rolling the dice probably would've led to a better outcome than leaving him in that home.
- The earliest years are where the individual gains their fundamental personality. This kid is toast, no matter what kind of treatment or assistance they receive. They weren't born this way, but they're now done for.
- I assure you, even though it is likely that the environment failed them, some kids are just plain evil and will require lifelong support. Parents arent always to blame.
  
  Yeah, but parents who leave loaded guns around where their six-year-olds can have access to them are probably to blame.
  
  Why do you think that some kids are just plain evil? I'm reading several comments stating this thing and it just baffles me, to say the least.
  
  Maybe not always, but nearly always. Which begs the question why people are so keen to blame a 6 year old kid here and not the parents? It feels to me like it's just easier for people to simplify matters by blaming the person involved because the alternative is messy and complicated.
- Not sure I fully agree, humans are social animals and learn what behaviors are beneficial for both themselves and the group. You can point to specific things that run counter to this, but that doesn't change what humans are. But it is a distinction without a difference. Either way it's the environment the child is in that is eventuating a negative outcome.
  
  None of that conflicts with the comment you replied to. You're both correct.
  
  Are you outing yourself?
- There are exceptions to every rule. Some kids are born evil, although you're probably right that the parents suck too
  
  True, but we have no idea if this child is a born psychopath or not. We do know they did something extremely depraved and were raised very poorly.
This is why some US Americans want armed teachers ?
To shoot back at 6 year olds ?
- They say it's so teachers can protect themselves and their students (from the consequences of failed gun laws) but really, it's just because they have to say something -- and it can't be the truth.
  At a civilian level, most of them simply don't care. They're confident it will never be their kids and they consider a stranger's children less important than their own easy access to firearms.
  But they can't say that, so they make flowery comments about freedom, defending their family and how they're the ones keeping America out of the hands of tyrants, even though they staunchly support tyrants and wouldn't even wear a mask to protect other people, let alone fight and die for them.
  On the corporate and political level, there's good money and easy votes in guns. It's no different to tobacco, asbestos and everything else they fought to profit from even as it killed people.
  But they can't say that either. So instead, they coordinate what today's scapegoat is going to be. Computer games? Too many doors? Timid police? Whatever keeps the money flowing.
  The important part for all of them is demanding other solutions are tried before gun control. They know they won't work, but it will buy them more time and the more time they waste, the better.
  That's why their current solution is "free, universal healthcare for everybody in America, including 5 year olds and people who don't want treatment, done to a standard far beyond even the most cutting edge of medicine, completely and permanently curing people in less time than it takes to buy a gun".
  Which they then block anyway, because it's important their conditions for supporting gun control are never met.
  
  there's good money and easy votes in guns.
  Despite it's current reputation, it's easy to forget how powerful the NRA was in the eighties and nineties. Zero republicans could get on a ballet without the NRA rating seal of approval.
  There's a massive amount of inertia in American politics.
- Not just teachers: this obviously wouldn't have happened, if all the other students had been armed, too.
  The only thing that can stop a bad 6-year-old with a gun is a good 6-year-old with a gun.
- Bringing whole new level to "Kindergarten Cop" I don't think Arny could have predicted this
  
  Maybe because of the tumor?
- They want armed teachers because the alternative is gun control. They don’t want gun control, so apparently throwing fire on a burning house is now the way to put out fires.
- Yes but they seem to be forgetting the very obvious thing that will happen (and has already happened) when you have more guns being brought into schools, even by those you (misguidedly) trust.
  For some reason they don't seem to be able to get that not having guns in or anywhere near a school is the best way not to have shootings at schools.
  That article highlights just one obvious problem. Here are others:
  We can't even rely on our cops to shoot only the people who need to be shot. Now we're going to trust that teachers will be able to perform better under those stresses - which may include the need to shoot one of their own students - than cops do? How on earth does that track?
  Legal gun owners go on shooting sprees too. Really easy for you when you are already whitelisted to be showing up to school armed.
  A variation on the article I linked: Careless teacher with a gun leaves it in the bathroom and kid finds it and shoots themselves and/or others with it instead of turning it in.
  
  Legal gun owners go on shooting sprees too.
  And teachers have to deal with an incredibly stressful situation all day which ever-restrictive Republican education laws in many states make even more stressful. Put guns in the mix and one of them will go postal one day.
  
  But the solution could be as simple as the gun is locked and retrievable by the teacher either by biometrics or code. It could also trigger a school wide alarm if the firearm is released so it would give other classes a chance to lock down. The option is there if the teacher needs it they don't need to be having the gun on themselves.
- No, no, no, you’ve gotten it all wrong. We need armed teachers to shoot dangerous books.
  There’s no way we can ban all of the dangerous books, so we need teachers to shoot them out of the hands of our precious youth.
The intentional shooting itself is all I need to know that the little kid has really significant issues that need to be treated. The fact that he bragged about it isn't news; he's six, I'm not expecting him to act maturely about anything.
- My mom works in a school as a therapist for very mentally ill children. There are a few that have been sent to the bad kids school because of violence. I wouldn't be surprised if she told me one of the kids shot someone.
Yo, how strong does a kindergartner need to be to be able to choke out a fully grown adult? Wild.
- How deranged does a kid need to be for the system to keep a very close eye on them? Seriously that kid is probably a psychopath who's gonna kill more people if nobody prevents him from doing so
  
  That or he's badly abused/neglected, and is in need of very serious therapy.
  My wife's hometown of like 300 people had a school shooter, and the kid was one of the worst abuse cases I'd ever heard. Tortured, made to live in a closet and eat dog food, shit like that. Ended up shooting the principal while wrestling for the gun (his only victim) and the principal was like the only guy in town who brought the kid food and clothes and stuff (which his parents then "punished" him for receiving). Just an awful situation.
  In some ways, this kid acting out so early may save his and others lives, fucked up as it is.
- It says she's retired so she's probably up there in age. That and probably trying not to hurt him
- Bigger boy (for his age) and a smaller woman, especially a kid using all his strength, it can definitely happen.
  
  Especially if you're trying not to hurt them.
- It's probably more about the person being strangled not wanting to exert too much force on a child.
- My 5 year old is very big compared to my 5'1" 105 lbs. Honestly I could totally see a kid his size if they were deranged being able to do some serious damage to someone my size.
Oh look another shooting that basic safe storage laws could have prevented, without even restricting firearm ownership, but ammosexuals still resist them.
- proper gun ownership turns you gay tho
- The boy's mother, however, Deja Taylor, has been charged with felony child neglect and misdemeanour recklessly leaving a loaded firearm as to endanger a child.
  It looks like she violated the storage laws.
  
  No, its more like they came up with that as a way to punish someone for this act. As far as im aware, there isnt a law describing how guns need to be sotred to keep them away form kids and if there is, it sure as hell isnt enforced.
- How would safe storage laws prevent this? They would just result in another charge for the mother. You really think someone who leaves a gun around with a 6 year old with behavioral issues would lock it up just because of a law?
  
  Storage laws are the easiest to abide by, though. My stuff all lives in a safe, which key is on my person, because my dotty wife and ditzy daughter frequently forget to lock the door behind them.
  Is an intruder just gonna take the safe and lockboxes? Yep.
  Am I gonna report that theft as "lockbox, contained one pistol (SN:xxxxxxxx); loaded magazine, 9 rounds?" You betcha.
  As you say, LPL videos are free so a lockbox and safe are like, the least obstructive Imlediments ever. What's the harm in this Pascal's wager?
  Edit: bah! Wrong reply bug! This was directed to a comment down thread 👇
  
  How would safe storage laws prevent this? They would just result in another charge for the mother. You really think someone who leaves a gun around with a 6 year old with behavioral issues would lock it up just because of a law?
  The implication is that you actually enforce the laws after you implement them, rather than just implementing them as a way to add a charge. For example in my country police will come to inspect my house at least once a year to make sure im storing them properly and if a neighbour complains or something they will also make an unschedules checked.
  I get American gun owners would take this basic safety precaution as the deepest violation of a tyranical government and would shoot a cop before they let them inspect their home for safety, but my point is if they did agree to sensible safe storage legislation this wouldnt have happened
  
  Bingo they're just a barrier to entry that negatively effects those of lower income since safes aren't cheap. Start a program to provide secure no cost safes upon request and I'm with you.
- Well that depends on what "unsecured" really means
- Laws don't force people to use gun safety protocols, but I think the violation of such laws needs to be a felony (no more guns for you).
What in the hell?
- Murica
  
  FrEeDoM
What. The fuck.
- We need to ~~talk about Kevin~~ punt this little shitweasel.
See yall next school shooting
- Do I have time to eat before?
  
  Yea, they’re on summer break still. Once classes start back up we’ll have them daily again
We need to arm all the teachers. And all the students. And all the guns. And all the bullets: they can carry little baby guns with more guns in them.
Only after every atom in the universe is a gun will we ever be safe from guns.
Screw the kids parents
This sounds like a villain origin story.
Jeez. When I was a 6yo we used rubber bands for that, and sang songs about it. The next generation was not supposed to take it literally. :(((
Y'all are acting outraged while this boy could've stopped the Sandy Hook-shooting. It's only due to unlucky circumstances that he happened to shoot his teacher instead. Wrong place, wrong time. Poor boy.
- Upvote because this response seems about as reasonable as the "put him down" responses.
50th term abortion
Kids psychologically profile the same as a psychopath. This is because kids usually haven't developed their sense of empathy yet.
I wonder if unfettered access to violent media, without parental guidance or context, coupled with a culture of narcissistic whinging about how important guns are for life, with zero structure at home led to this happening.
- As a person who grew up with unrestricted access to violent media, I argue against this point.
  I was watching violent and bloody films like Blade, Kill Bill, From Dusk Till Dawn around the time I was 5. There are a host of violent games avaliable from that time, too.
  I feel like there are two reasons one would seek this type of media out: the aesthetics of violence (there's a reason John Wick has 4 films) and genuine psychopathy, a craving to emulate.
  I'd argue very few people have an actual craving to emulate extreme violence, even in an environment saturated with its artificial presentation, and that those people would do so without the access to said saturated media. I blame the parents mostly. It's not the movies that make the attitude for how to treat others, it's how you're shown to treat others in real life
  Even as a toddler I understood film was fake
- I would put the access to weapons first of all.
- Or lack of conveniently available and accessible abortion clinics.
- And possibly FAS or some similar issue .
My best friend is a teacher and I'm genuinely worry that something like this will happen to her. I feel like more and more parents are failing their kids, only because the system is failing, lets go ahead and not commit the fundamental attribution error.
Can I request a timeline reset please?
I scrolled past this but saw the headline and then BBC and it caught my attention. I scrolled back because this is some strange shit for the UK. I then started reading and saw it say the US and stopped reading. Nothing more to read here.
- Well thanks for sharing. Glad to know how you scroll.
@STRIKINGdebate2
Tbf most Westernized nations have utterly starved any mental health care initiatives of needed funding, to the point that shitty things like this happen.
- I guess you haven't been to non-westernized nation's mental health care facilities?
Next Kyle Rittinghouse just watch.
- but Kyle Rittenhouse was in the right
  He wasn't legally allowed to be in possession of the gun...
  Let alone running around a riot with it after curfew
- You're suggesting the six year old child is going to lawfully defend himself against 3 adult males, including a pedophile? I'm not understanding your comparison.
  
  Let's not pretend that the technical legality of Rittenhouse's actions make him any less a piece of shit. And he certainly wasn't trying to rid the world of a pedo, as he had no way of knowing that. So acting like it somehow makes things better is quite disingenuous.
  He went looking to use his rifle, and got himself in deep enough to create a scenario where he could get away with doing so. Nothing more admirable than that.
  
  Do explain how Rittenhouse knew he was shooting a pedophile. Did he see the man's criminal record before opening fire?
  
  Dont worry there will be plenty of school shooting stories in the future for you to come in and praise guns.
  
  As far as I know, he's just a murderer, not a pedophile.
  
  I think he is trying to conflate the 6 year old bragging about shooting people with Kyle Rittenhouse "bragging" about overcoming an attempted character assassination, criminal charges, and successfully defending himself from those who intended to cause death or great bodily harm.
  I belive he thinks Kyle Rittenhouse "bragging" about shooting (lawful self-defense) people is the same as the 6 year old bragging about shooting (attempted murder) his teacher.
- Hmmm, yes, let us murder this child before he has a chance to murder us. This is what a society does.
  
  Bruh, I'm just appealing to utilitarianism here. Also, remember that this child almost murdered an innocent teacher.
- Nation-wide 6mm abortions up until the age of 14 lol
  
  😂
- Age 6 was the time to intervene but the system is trash, bare minimum assistance provided generally makes things worse.
- You are correct. Have a downvote.
- I don't agree with this rehabilitation bullshit, it's only for rich and small countries with already high living standards. Any other country, and it will be just like you said, a bunch of people working their assess off just for a slight chance at a psycho not turning into a disgusting asshole.
  
  Yes rehabilitation costs money and time, but do you realise that the death penalty often uses more money and resources than keeping somebody alive and in prison for the remainder of their life?
  It baffles me when people like you jump to these extreme conclusions. Kids a fucked up little shit, but here you are calling for his death. That in itself is extremely fucked up.
  
  Yeah. I would also say that even in rich and small countries, it's hard. Some people are just born psychos - far ends of the bell curve, etc etc.
‘In kindergarten choking her till she could not breath’ BITCH that’s a 5 year old fuck him up.
- I think you woefully underestimate how much it's drilled into teachers' heads not to use any sort of physical force at all
  Very, very high chance she loses her job and is potentially charged with assault of she had
  
  Loses her job and also can’t get a job anywhere else. It’d essentially be the end of her career
  
  True, but I think that's still better than being dead.
  
  Idgaf. If a five year old is choking me till the point I can’t breath there will be (appropriate) consequences. He spends 8 hours a day at that school you bet your ass he will behave in my class.
- It's probably a case of her thinking she can not defend herself out of fear of backlash. Teachers have been charged with assault when defending themselves from students.
  
  I don't promote violence but someone is attacking you, you have defend yourself. If that leads to charges so be it.
Great "article" BBC. Let's vilify the 6 year old who is too young to be any more fucked up than his home environment has directly caused him to be or to otherwise grasp the finality of these actions, with only a brief mention of the mother, and no discussion at all about the easy access to guns which lies at the root of every such story.
- This article clearly paints a picture of how the adults in this child's life clearly ignored their obvious violent tendencies.
  
  5/6 year olds don't behave like that unless their parents have created that behavior through neglect or abuse. Given the other things we know about the mother from quality reporting, that tracks.
- @beexcellenttoeachother @STRIKINGdebate2
  What if the parents don't have the $1000's to spend on mental healthcare for the child?
  'Murica seems to forget that there are hundreds of thousands of people who can't afford insurance while working $7 per hour jobs.

208 comments