wellfill @ wellfill @lemmy.ml

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Joined

10 mo. ago

So just so I understand if there was any succesful organised revolution based on general strikes she would be right? It would have worked? Same stupid argument which you made could be made about anything that ended.

Her approach failed, so did bolshevism. I dont actually mean this, I want to show the stupidity of the claim.

Yes they advocated for bourgeois revolution before the socialist one.

Vietnam and Korea are good counter examples. The commities and democratic organization of the communists was very cool and developed during colonial periods. That does not mean that the idea of historical materialism is not deeply marxist. The contradictions which arise in a capitalist society between the classes give rise to the revolution.

Well this is just ahistorical, what do you mean by proved to be unworkable? She was abandonded by the reformists who abandoned the movement as a whole. That does not mean that she was somehow wrong, she was abandoned. Mensheviks were marxists, social democrats today are not. Furthermore a bolshevik may consider a menshevik to be reformist, bolsheviks wanted the revolution before the industrialization. I dont understand why you believe that mensheviks opposed socialism after the industrialization.

edit: I should also point out how deeply marxist, in the sense that it was idea of marx, is the point that bourgeois revolution is necessary before the socialist one. Pure historical materialism.

It generally means an attack on the speaker, instead of showing fallacy in the argument. As you may have noticed I made no claim of ad hominem in the other reply chain. Just here.

Yes it was blatantly false, so false in fact that you proceed to argue pretty much the point that in Luxemburgs view the role of the party is to organise the spontaneous strikes or workers into eventually general strikes, unlike Lenins idea where the party leaders whip the population into doing what they want. Simply put again Luxemburg and mensheviks argued for gradual revolution. Difference being that menshevisk also thought that russia needed to industrialize before that. both were far more democratic than lenin and bolshevism

Ad hominem is not absurd?

Ok, I havent considered that argument. How to even respond to such ad hominem?

Social democrats are organizing commities like the soviets and unions? Where?

The Luxemburg point was about the preindustrialised consensus. The point that only industrialized country should become socialist. She was also against the bolshevik centralized power structure. Like the mensheviks

This is true, there was a consensus among marxists that a country which is not industrialized will have tremendous trouble if it became socialist. But it misrepresents the mensheviks to assume that they would cooperate with the bourgeois society, they organized the proletariat through unionization. Not to say that proletariat is typically meant in an industrialized society, where there are capitalists. Under your logic people like Rosa Luxemberg would also not be socialist.

Ok, in that case bolsheviks were just overt capitalists. On serious side, Lenin was a right deviation from marxist movement. Some of his texts like state and revolution are indeed marxist. Mensheviks were the ones who historically organized the soviets and were more prominent and useful to the movement in the beginnigng. On the other hand when bolsheviks took over they immediately weakened the soviet commities and tried to institute more centrally controlled hierarchy. Now I dont want to be dismissive of bolsheviks, their rightist approach to socialism set an ideological precedent. I just prefer different branch of socialism, the more marxist one.

Yeah I don't know, mensheviks and other left socialists also have their appeal. But sure historical relevancy won the postcard.

Where did you find any Russians in the report?

I second this, only small part actually committed acts of terrorism and have disrwgard for civilians, I believe the al qassam brigades. By trying to argue that all Hamas members are terrorists he just shows his poor understanding.

Hey this reminds me of some history. Did you know that before considering the final solution the initial idea was to deport jewish people to Madagascar. This was all "legal" we are in Germany of course. The Nuremberg laws stripped jews and others of their citizenship, simmilar again. German authorities at the time could not deal with the total number of peoples in need of transportation. So they considered other at the time "legal" options. Oh well.

Aah yes, you were right. I mistakenly thought that you tried to compare the economies by using the arms manufacturing. But you only said the statement about economy size is wrong, which indeed because of ppp it is. I also agree that he uses this for propagandist purposes. Investing heavily into arms production and having more oppressed workforce doesnt sound as good I guess.

But he only talks in real values, why is ppp relevant? Note I dont necessarily share his point, I'm just not sure what you mean.

The book is freely available 😄

Parliamentarism is a joke of a democracy. It does not represent the people or their needs.

I think that your point confuses islamic state with a muslim majority state. While almost all muslim majority states allow women to vote(even though some only quite recently like saudis), islamic state would be different. This is of course same for any fundamentalist state like a jewish one or christian one. They are incompatible with democracy.

Yeah the US clearly has an open southern border. How could you not see that? /s

Alright so if I understand this well: Haiti under the French colonial rule did not have slavery during the times when the imported slave population exceeded some limit when compared to the French population there.

I will continue with a hypothetical: if for example more French came on a trip there and the not slaves would become a minority, there would all of a sudden be slavery there. And of course when they would depart from their holidays, Haiti would again gracefully abandon that heinous practice.