trollbearpig @ trollbearpig @lemmy.world

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2 yr. ago

I always ask all people defending AI, or rather LLMs, what's the great value they all mention in their comments. So far the "best" answer I got was one dude using LLMs to extract info from decades old reports that no one has checked in 20 years hahaha. So glad we are allowing LLMs to deetroy the environment and plagiarize all creative work for that lol.

So, what is the great value you see man?

Probably too late, but just to complement what others have said. The UEFI is responsible for loading the boot software thst runs when the computer is turned on. In theory, some malware that wants to make itself persistent and avoid detection could replace/change the boot software to inject itself there.

Secure boot is sold as a way to prevent this. The way it works, at high level, is that the UEFI has a set of trusted keys that it uses to verify the boot software it loads. So, on boot, the UEFI check that the boot software it's loading is signed by one of these keys. If the siganture check fails, it will refuse to load the software since it was clearly tampered with.

So far so good, so what's the problem? The problem is, who picks the keys that the UEFI trusts? By default, the trusted keys are going to be the keys of the big tech companies. So you would get the keys from Microsoft, Apple, Google, Steam, Canonical, etc, i.e. of the big companies making OSes. The worry here is that this will lock users into a set of approved OSes and will prevent any new companies from entering the field. Just imagine telling a not very technical user that to install your esoteric distro they need to disable something called secure boot hahaha.

And then you can start imagining what would happen if companies start abusing this, like Microsoft and/or Apple paying to make sure only their OSes load by default. To be clear, I'm not saying this is happening right now. But the point is that this is a technology with a huge potential for abuse. Some people, myself included, believe that this will result in personal computers moving towards a similar model to the one used in mobile devices and video game consoles where your device, by default, is limited to run only approved software which would be terrible for software freedom.

Do note that, at least for now, you can disable the feature or add custom keys. So a technical user can bypass these restrictions. But this is yet another barrier a user has to bypass to get to use their own computer as they want. And even if we as technical users can bypass this, this will result in us being fucked indirectly. The best example of this are the current Attestation APIs in Android (and iOS, but iOS is such a closed environment that it's just beating a dead horse hahahah). In theory, you can root and even degoogle (some) android devices. But in practice, this will result in several apps (banks in particular, but more apps too) to stop working because they detect a modified device/OS. So while my device can technically be opened, in practice I have no choice but to continue using Google's bullshit. They can afford to do this because 99% of users will just run the default configuration they are provided, so they are ok with losing the remaining users.

But at least we are stopping malware from corrupting boot right? Well, yes, assuming correct implementations. But as you can see from the article that's not a given. But even if it works as advertised, we have to ask ourselves how much does this protect us in practice. For your average Joe, malware that can access user space is already enough to fuck you over. The most common example is ransonware that will just encrypt your personal files wothout needing to mess with the OS or UEFI at all. Similarly a keylogger can do its thing without messing with boot. Etc, etc. For an average user all this secure boot thing is just security theater, it doesn't stop the real security problems you will encounter in practice. So, IMO it's just not worth it given the potential for abuse and how useless it is.

It's worth mentioning that the equation changes for big companies and governments. In their case, other well funded agents are willing to invest a lot of resources to create very sofisticated malware. Like the malware used to attack the nuclear program plants in Iran. For them, all this may be worth it to lock down their software as much as possible. But they are playing and entirely different game than the rest of us. And their concerns should not infect our day to day lives.

Says while citing "studies" from the fraser institute, a libertarian think tank registered as a charity. Fuck them and fuck you for spreading their propaganda.

https://cepr.net/data-from-bolivias-election-add-more-evidence-that-oas-fabricated-last-years-fraud-claims/

The USA, through the OAS, fabricated a bogus statistics report acussing Evo of stealing the elections. This was the time when the Elon rat tweeted that "they would coup whoever the wanted". Even at the time, a lot of staticians were reporting that the analysis was bogus. The awful woman they put in charge ordered at least 2 massacres against people protesting the coup. And as soon as she let the country had elections, Evo's party won by more than 50% of the vote. Keep in mind that unlike the USA, there are more than 2 parties in Bolivia, so they had more than 20% lead in the vote. It's very obvious that Bolivians want Evo and his party in power. The OAS and USA are full of shit as usual.

The coup at least resulted in 2 term limits being implemented in Bolivia so Evo can't stay in power forever, so not all bad. But the USA can't stop fucking in latin america.

I figure since big tech spent quite a bit of money building those datasets and since they were built before the law, they will be able to keep using them as long as they don't add anything new but I can't be certain.

This is a very weird assumption you are making man. The quoted text you sent above pretty much says the opposite. It says everyone who wants to train their models wirh copyrigthed data needs to get permission from the copyright holders. That is great for me period. No one, not a big company nor the open source community, gets to steal the work of people producing art, code, etc. I honestly don't get why you assume all the data scrapped before would be exempt. Again, very weird assumption.

As for ML algorithms having use, of course they have. Hell, pretty much every company I have worked with has used them for decades. But take a look at the examples you provided. None of them requires you or your company scrapping a bunch of information from randoms on the internet. Specially not copyrighted art, literature, or code. And that's the point here, you are acting like all of that stops with these laws but that's ridiculous.

So you are saying that content scraped before the law is fair game to train new models? If so it's fucking terrible. But again, I doubt this is the case since this would be against the interests of the big copyright holders. And if it's not the case you are just creating a storm in glass of water since this affects the companies too.

As a side point, I'm really curious about LLM uses. As a programmer the only useful product I have seen so far is copilot and similar tools. And I ended up disabling the fucking thing because it produces too much garbage hahaha. But I'm the first to admit I haven't been following this hype cycle hahahaha, so I'm really curious what the big things will be. You clearly know so much, so want to enligten me?

My man, I think you are delisuonal hahahaha. You are giving AI way too much credit to a technology that's just a glorified autocomoplete. But I guess I get your point, if you think that AI (and LLMs in particular hahahaha) is the way of the future and all that, then this is apocalyptic hahahahaha.

But you are delisuonal my man. The only practical use so far for these stupid LLMs is autocomplete which works great when it works. And bypassing copyright law by pretending it's producing novel shit. But that's a whole other discussion, time will show this is just another bubble like crypto hahahaha. For now, I hope they at least force everyone to stop plagiarising other peoples work with AI.

My man, I think you are mixin a lot of things. Let's go by parts.

First, you are right that almost all websites get some copyright rights when you post on their platforms. At best, some license the content as Creative Commons or similar licenses. But that's not new, that has been this way forever. If people are surprised that they are paying with their data at this point I don't know what to say hahaha. The change with this law would be that no one, big tech companies or open source, gets to use this content for free to train new models right?

Which brings me back to my previous question, this law applies to old data too right? You say "new data is not needed" (which is not true for chat LLMs that want to include new data for example), but old data is still needed to use the new methods or to curate the datasets. And most of this old data was acquired by ignoring copyright laws. What I get from this law is that no one, including these companies, gets to keep using this "illegaly" acquired data now right? I mean, I'm pretty sure this is the case since movie studios and similar are the ones pushing for this law, they will not go like "it's ok you stole all our previous libraries, just don't steal the new stuff" hahahaha.

I do get your point that the most likely end result is that movie studios, record labels, social media platforms, etc, will just start selling the rights to train on their data and the only companies who will be able to afford this are the big tech companies. But still, I think this is a net possitive (weird times for me to be on the side of these awful companies hahaha).

First of all, it means no one, including big tech companies, get to steal content that is not theirs or given to them willingly. I'm particularly interested in open source code, but the same applies to indie art and any other form of art outside of the big companies. When we say that we want to stop the plagiarism it's not a joke. Tech companies are using LLMs to attack the open source community by stealing the code under the excuse of LLMs being transformative (bullshit of course). Any law that stops this is a possitive to me.

And second of all, consider the 2 futures we have in front of us. Option one is we get laws like this, forcing AI to comply with copyright law. Which basically means we maintain the current status quo for intellectual property. Not great obviously, but the alrtenative is so much worse. Option two is we allow people to use LLMs to steal all the intellectual property they want, which puts an end to basically any market incentives to produce art by humans. Again, the current copyright system is awful. But why do you guys want a system were we as individuals have to keep complying with copyright but any company can bypass that with an LLM? Or how do you guys think this is going to pan out if we just don't regulate AI?

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't understand what you guys mean by "the river cannot be dammed". The LLM models need to be retrained all the time to include new data and in general to get them to change their behavior in any way. Wouldn't this bill apply to all these companies as soon as they retrain their models?

I mean, I get the point that old models would be exempt from the law since laws can't be retroactive. But I don't get how that's such a big deal. These companies would be stuck with old models if they refuse to train new ones. And as much hype as there is around AI, current models are still shit for the most part.

Also, can you explain why you guys think this would stop open source models? I have always though that the best solution to stop these fucking plagiarism machines was for the open source community to create an open source training set were people contribute their art/text/whatever. Does this law prevents this? Honestly to me this panic sounds like people without any artistic talent wanted to steal the work of artists and they are now mad they can't do it.

Maybe read the text? It has nothing to do with prefering iOS. It's just google refused to comply with China's spyware requests some time ago (a broken clock and all that), so it's literally impossible to use android for this in China. Apple on the other hand is happy to suck China's dick hahahaha, so it's the only option. Man, you Apple fans are really brainwashed, this is a bad look for Apple hahahah.

Hahahahah. First, nice strawman. I have never said that all problems in latin america were caused by the USA. You gringos are really touchy with criticism for a country that loves to support coups.

Second, look here https://www.vox.com/2020/5/11/21249203/venezuela-coup-jordan-goudreau-maduro-guaido-explain for example of the ridiculous coup attempt made by the US government in Venezuela. And this was after they had declared Guaido as president and blockaded Venezuela. Note that the equipment and training were provided by US personel. Hell, they even arrested 2 gringos hahaha. It was so patethic that there is no denying anything here my dude. I love how incompetent Trump was, I honestly wish he wins again because of shit like this hahahahaha.

For Bolivia just check this https://cepr.net/data-from-bolivias-election-add-more-evidence-that-oas-fabricated-last-years-fraud-claims/. The OAS, lead by the fearless USA, fabricated evidence to justify a coup. I mean, as soon as they had new elections Evo's party won by a landslide hahaha. The only reason he is not president is because they now have 2 term limits, which is great IMO. So the coup did do something good hahahaha.

As for Colombia being punished, just look at the declarations from fucking Rubio in https://colombiaone.com/2024/06/13/colombia-us-aid-cut/. They cut the "aid" they provide us just because we picked a left wing president. Note that this "aid" is used to combat narcotrafic on behalf of the USA, wiith Colombia spending even more of our own money. Note that a lot of Colombians, myself included, would like to move towards legalization instead of continuing the war on drugs. But the USA threatens us with a blockade everytime a serious attempt is made.

I could keep going, but I'm pretty sure you are just going to downvote and ignore everything I said hahahaha.

My man, what an empty comment. Honestly you just made me sad. Just a bunch of insults showing how empty your brain is hahahaha.

I did read your entire comment and even the linked article. Too bad you said nothing in so many words though. Just excuses about how unique your country is as usual.

We are, just one step at a time my man. There are plans to create a train system conecting Bogotá with the closest towns for example. But we have to fight every step of the way for it hahaha. But at least we are moving in the right direction. Enjoy your moral superiority about doing nothing though. I'm sure if you guys keep complaining things will improve on their own hahaha.

So to be clear, what you are saying is that the USA should spend more in roads and less in public transport right? Because the USA is so special that you poor things just have no more options.

Fuck man, even here in Bogotá we are finally building a metro, and yes the work for it had fucked traffic even more. And for years we have been taking roads away from cars to use them for buses (see what transmilenio is) and bycicles. And guess what, it has been a fucking uphill battle every step of the way for morons like you who just love their fucking cars. Is Bogotá traffic good? Fuck no. Is public transport great here? Hahahaha, god no. But we are making progress despite morons like you. But you people keep your excuses, you poor morons and your american exceptionalism. Even the third world is leaving you behind hahaha, is kind of pathetic, specially because is people like you holding your country back.

First of all my man, I was responding to your comment about "people complaining about roads" in the USA. I'm just pointing out how the people that complain about that are part of the problem. As the comment you replied pointed out, one of the main problems the USA have is that they do invest in infrastructure. Is just that they invest in the dumbest possible transport infrastructure possible, roads for cars. Your comment is ridiculous in that context, its's basically "yeah, and they should invest even more in roads" hahahahahaha, come on man.

Second, at some point you americans need to start taking responsibility of your governmment and elected officials. IMO this particular problem is caused by the voters, and you people loveee to blame your politicians like you are the only country with crappy politicians. Be honest with yourself, what do you think will happen to a politician that campaigns on removing lanes from cars to create dedicated lanes for buses in the USA? Or a politician campaining on moving funds from road development to rails development? Etc, etc. It's a career killing move for a politician in the USA, you people love your cars hahahaha.

The real problem is that you people don't want public transport. Or rather, you want public transport but magically without affecting your cars infrastructure. So politicians have no incentive to invest in public transit, quite the opposite.

But how many are actually willing to give up cars and use public transport instead if given the choice? In my experience, most people want to be able to continue using their cars but with glowing roads and little traffic hahahaha. That's what we mean when we say people are car-brained, most people want magic solutions to be able to continue to use their stupid, contaminating, inneficient cars. EVs will fix the contamination hahaha. And another lane will fix traffic for sure hahaha. These people are just too dumb to realize that it's literally impossible to do what they want once you have areas with "high" population density. Instead, as you just mentioned, most people just complain like dumbasses like that's good for anything.

Ok, I'm going to assume you are honestly confused here. Though I'm autistic too dude, please don't use that as an excuse. Your problem here is reading comprehension, not autism. There are no social cues to miss here.

The only thing in my comments about you is the fact that no, I don't think I should be polite when someone is saying stupid and harmful shit like the original comment (not you) was saying. They are being rude with their actions, so they don't get any respect from my words, period. And you too, to a lesser extent. Even if you don't realize it, your comments boil down to "you may be right, but you were rude so I'm going to act as if you were wrong". This is a harmful position to take, and it's the position all these stupid centrists take to justify doing nothing and maintaining the status quo.

Everything else is not about you obviously hahaha. I mean, you didn't really say anything worth discussing beyond ponting out how inpolite I was hahaha.

My man, you seriously need to improve your reading comprehension. Not everything is about you. Or are you just trolling?

I called it a stupid take because it was a stupid take. I'm sorry the truth hurts. And to be honest, I'm not interested in having a conversation here. I just wanted to point out how stupid that comment was so people who are actually insterested in being informed can start reading about these topics.

And finally, fuck you too as a treat hahahaha. Seriously, what are you contributing to the conversation here? Because too me you are just distracting us with your moral superiority while ignoring the very serious issues I was mentioning. Downvote me for not being polite, who gives a fuck about fake internet points. As long as some people reading my comment actually go and read about this I don't give a fuck hahahaha.

Not you, the original comment I was replying too. I don't understand why you think denying the harmful shit being done by the USA is polite while calling them out is inpolite?