theyoyomaster @ theyoyomaster @lemmy.world

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317

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2 yr. ago

https://www.pinkpistols.org/

Maybe? They didn't give their justification but more likely than not it is because both the FBI and ATF considered their primary job not to be investigating and getting answers as much as creating justification for summarily ignoring laws by executive fiat.

Judges lie all the time to justify trampling on the second amendment. The cases are not settled, the ban has been thrown out in two separate circuits already. With Bruen being a specific message to lower courts to actually apply the 2A it is unlikely the ban will survive much longer.

The ATF handles the firearms portion of high visibility investigations. It was the ATF that investigated the firearms aspect of the massacre and were the source of that portion of the final report. No agency actually inspected the internal components of the guns at any point and the final report did not determine whether or not bump stocks were actually used, just that it was a possibility. This was revealed via a FOIA request after the investigation completed. The powers that be made the specific choice to not figure out if they were or were not machine guns or conduct any sort of testing on the weapons regarding their function or rate of fire and commented on this fact on internal documents during the investigation.

By saying it applied to something that specifically does not meet the very clear definition of the law? “One function of the trigger” isn’t ambiguous in any way shape or form. They are not legally machine guns under the law regardless of what they can achieve by means other than sustained full automatic fire.

Not necessarily. The rate of fire is far more consistent than you normally get with a bump stock. Converting any given gun to full auto illegally isn't that hard, it can even be done with a shoelace. During the course of the investigation the ATF was prohibited from testing or inspecting any of the weapons and they admitted that they do not know if they were illegal machine guns or not. All it would have taken is a pair of tin snips and a sheet of mild steel from home depot; the asshole more than proved that he had time and ability to do so.

Not at all, fully automatic is it will continue to fire so long as the trigger is held down. It has always been that. With both FRTs and bump stocks you still pull the trigger individually for every single round that is fired. You can do the exact same thing without an FRT or a bump stock and even revolvers can be fan fired.

That is exaxtly what I was referring to. FRTs aren’t what are turning up at crime scenes. When you’re committing murder, the majority of which is gang related, you don’t bother with expensive work around; you just put a switch in your Glock and call it a day. It also helps that felons and minors can’t be charged with a crime under the NFA for possession of a machine gun like a switched Glock.

I’m not going to say that they have never been used in a crime because nothing is absolute, but they are definitely a niche and rare even outside the context of crimes. I would be very surprised if there has actually been a case of “a 5 year old” getting murdered with one like the other guy suggested. I feel like it’s both extremely unlikely statistically and something that would have generated massive media coverage.

Any modern gun can functionally do the exact same thing with a beltloop, stick or just your finger. The difference is that a machine gun is actually a specific and different function from this that does it automatically for you.

The simplest and most likely answer is that they didn't want to know. If they can say "he had bumpstocks" they had reason to ignore the fact that bumpstocks are 100% legal and ban them anyway without legislation. If they had found out that he genuinely modified them to be real machine guns, which are already banned by legislation, then they wouldn't have their justification for going outside the law. There might be another answer but this is the one that feels the least like a conspiracy theory. It took a FOIA request for them to even admit that they were prohibited from inspecting any of the weapons used.

I mean, they really aren't used in crime in any appreciable way. Criminals just modify/use real machine guns. The law in question doesn't even apply to felons, only legal gun owners can be charged with it.

The spirit of the law is to ban machine guns, not set a subjective and arbitrary "firing rate" for semi automatics. You can achieve the same effect with any semi auto by just holding your beltloop. The only argument for it meeting the "spirit" of the law was that the NFA was a brazen attempt to skirt the 2nd Amendment and the goal was to ban as much as they could without it being thrown out, so this does sorta fit in with that, but not really.

I mean, a machine gun is a legal term that they do not meet the definition of, so there's that.

There's a lot of unanswered questions, even after the investigation was completed. A FOIA request showed that the ATF was prohibited from inspecting any of the guns to check for full auto modifications. It was a deliberate choice by investigators to not determine anything pertaining to the function of any given weapon.

He had bump stocks, the official investigation never determined whether or not he used them or if any of the rifles were illegally modified to be actual machine guns.

Yeah, it’s pretty easy to tell that you haven’t been around guns much. 50 rounds isn’t much and isn’t reasonable for any purpose from hobby to sport usage or even proficiency for someone who uses them professionally. The amount of ammo I shoot on any given range trip? Varies from 20 to hundreds and hundreds of rounds; it depends on the day, weather and dozens of other factors. Even the concept of only being able to buy a single box the day of is hugely problematic. For the most common calibers like 9mm prices over the past decade have varied from less than $ .30 a round to over $2.00 per round, if you could even get it. There have been periods of months to years where getting a single box every 3 months was difficult/near impossible. I have one rifle that is a family heirloom that I haven’t found ammunition in stock for over a decade and have never shot it since inheriting it.

The ammunition market is 100 times more volatile than a cardboard box soaked in gasoline holding 100lbs of gunpowder. Having a few thousand rounds doesn’t mean you’re planning anything bad, it’s a drop in the bycket to sustain occasional shooting for 6 months despite never ending supply issues that have been going on for years. If I see ammo at a fair price I buy as much of it as I can. On any given day I might be able to shoot half of the guns I own if I so desire due to the availability of ammo, and that includes the stuff I make on my own in my garage.

This was a federal trial, PA’s procedures don’t apply.

That is pretty normal for cases like this.

Lately it’s been War Thunder. Finally got it set up nicely with my Quest 2 and it’s pretty damn good in VR.

12 Years, fuck you u/Spez.