coyotino [he/him] @ theangriestbird @beehaw.org

i should be gripping rat

---

Read more

Posts

625

Comments

1,531

Joined

2 yr. ago

Also a fair response. How the hell did a rapist and convicted felon win the popular vote?

I know I got that! I was just adding to the sentiment. If anything, I'm getting the sense that more here agree with us than disagree, and I find that heartening.

I mean, you could try to understand what led people to that POV, and then build a coalition with those people so we can win next time. Or, we could just sit here and point fingers at each other til the end of time while the GOP continues to court more and more voters to their corner.

I'm all for being angry about this. It's the day after the election, I've been anxious all day. It sucks. But let's point our ire at the correct people: the Republicans that voted for Trump, and the Harris Campaign that did a piss poor job of courting undecided voters.

I mean, if you're referring to the people that voted for Trump, I'm right there with you. It's absolutely mind-boggling that a rapist and convicted felon won the popular vote.

I want to build a broad-based coalition that marginalizes these fascists so we never again have to choose between a fascist and a genocide-enabler. But nah, let's just stay in our echo chambers and tear each other to shreds while society crumbles outside.

I'm sorry, did you personally check my ballot?

I hear you. I can see the view that supporting an arms embargo might have also broke bad for Dems. I guess part of my point is that this is just one of a variety of issues where Kamala fumbled the bag.

I'm sorry, did you personally count my ballot? Or are you just making assumptions about me?

You're exactly right, and this is my point. I'd bet damn near everyone commenting in this thread voted for Harris. It doesn't matter, we aren't the swing voters. And the swing voters are the ones that decided this election. There is nothing we can really do to convince swing voters, unless they are already our friends or family. It was Harris's job to come out with bold policy proposals and messages that would convince those swing voters. Instead, she peddled the same milquetoast neolib shit that has been losing Dems elections since the 90s.

I'll also accept cursing Trump voters, as it is obvious that they will never be allies.

How is there blood on my hands? I have not pretended that the candidates are the same. I wanted Harris to win. My point is that she ran a bad campaign.

If you are not trying to make allies, that's fine. Just don't expect to ever win another election.

Sure thing. This the source for this report: https://www.imeupolicyproject.org/memos/joint-resolutions-of-disapproval-needed-to-block-record-weapons-sales-to-israel?rq=yougov

Here's another one from around the same time: https://www.commondreams.org/news/harris-arms-embargo-israel

Sure, but I would argue a much larger chunk of that Jewish voting population is firmly in the Democratic base, and may have voted for her either way. Only one party is supporting antisemitism, after all.

Then get used to losing elections, I guess. You generally can't change a person's mind unless they already respect you.

Trump has repeatedly said Netanyahu can do as he pleases, has repeatedly disparaged all Muslims, has repeatedly shown a political kinship with dictatorships.

Right, and Harris shouted down protesters and wouldn't denounce genocide. So if you are voting on this one single issue, you probably decide not to vote for either candidate, because they both cross your red line. However, most voters aren't single-issue voters, and Harris didn't provide much else in the way of policy to excite voters. Just vibes-based messaging and the occasional neoliberal economic policy.

So I repeat: Trump's win is Harris's fault. She had all the cards, and she flubbed it because she didn't want to piss off her billionaire donors.

126k Arab-Americans living in PA. As of reporting right now, Harris is losing PA by 152k votes. Obviously this doesn't clearly indicate that this single issue would swing the election in her favor, but I wouldn't call that "a tiny minority of no relevance to American politics".

2.1% of Michigan, and Harris could really use an extra 2.1% in Michigan right now.

most of the people you have probably argued with online about Harris and genocide probably did in fact hold their nose and vote for Harris. The people that stayed home were young people and Arab-Americans that have become disillusioned with the Dems, and the genocide was just the last straw. Many people who voted for Biden 4 years ago have found that their economic situation is worse than it was 4 years ago. Harris did little to convince people that her policy would be substantially different from Biden's. Most of her campaign's messaging was vibes-based shit like "coconut-pilled" and "we all need to heal" and "Madam President". In the rare instance that she talked economic policy, it was clear that she would be like Biden, except with more neoliberal cozying up to corporations.

The people I know who are plugged into politics simply sucked it up and voted for Harris, because they are realistic about things. If you are following the news like that, it is obvious that Trump is worse in every way conceivable. Most Americans are busy, poorly-educated, and not that plugged into politics. They get their news from Facebook or TikTok. For those people, it is the candidate's job to bring them on-side. Harris failed at that, plain and simple.

How about instead of blaming the people that Harris failed to convince, we talk about how we can invite those people back into our coalition? Personally, I'm ready to throw the Democratic party in the bin and start something new.

this is where i'm at. Maybe instead of loudly shouting for months that people should just get over the genocide and hold their nose and vote for Harris, Harris and the Dems should have been working to convince Americans that she would actually work on the issues that people care about? Americans are feeling like things keep getting more expensive and while their wages stay the same - what was Harris doing to address that? What was she suggesting that didn't feel like a band-aid on the problems with our top-heavy economy? Some stayed home because of the genocide, but more than that, Americans just weren't convinced that Harris would do anything to improve their economic situation.