the_toast_is_gone @ the_toast_is_gone @lemmy.world

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357

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2 yr. ago

Alright, I'll go back to your previous comments and address them.

The “Death to Israel” chants and hatred to Israel as an anti-zionist expression, not an anti-semitic one.

In their charter, Hamas quoted Hadiths about such an extreme war against the Jews that a tree/rock would tell them that a Jew was hiding behind it and ask them to kill him. That's not just anti-zionist.

The only new thing Oct 7th introduced was that the civilians dying were white and not brown.

Absolutely incorrect, Israeli civilians have been dying for decades.

Like I said above. Oct 7th wasn’t the beginning of this conflict. And Gaza was being wiped out before it, just more slowly and a lot more quietly. Hamas didn’t start this fight, they’re just fighting back for their freedom and very lives.

Yes or no, does that justify shooting up a music festival and raping who-knows-how-many women?

The links I gave you o ly scratch the surface of all the evil Israel has done.

Let's see. Hamas has been placing weapons in schools and hospitals since at least 2014. It's impossible to not attack "civilian" buildings when Hamas does this.

If the offense on Rafah is a genocide, then why did Israel order an evacuation of the area? If Israel just wants to kill as many Palestinians as possible, none of the evacuation orders would have happened. At the start of the war, at least, Hamas refused to allow people to evacuate Gaza. That means they're complicit in the ensuing deaths.

Given that Hamas fighters do not wear uniforms, and the general mixing of Hamas fighters among the population of Gaza, civilian deaths are inevitable. One of your sources about Israel using human shields confirms Hamas's use of human shields. But not only do they store weapons in civilian areas, in 2014, they were also quite proud of the fact that they cause so many civilian deaths as a result: “Hamas despises those defeatist Palestinians who criticise the high number of civilian casualties. The resistance praises our people … we lead our people to death … I mean, to war.”

Using human shields is an abominable practice indeed. Israeli soldiers should be punished severely for doing so. Hamas should, as well, because they're experts at it.

If the claims about AI are true - they seem to originate from a number of unnamed sources - then their use should be ended. To say that Hamas is any better in this regard is only a matter of scale. If they had as sophisticated a military as Israel's, Israel would no longer exist.

The alternative to blockading Gaza is allowing the flow of resources to the enemy that Israel is fighting. Israel has been issuing evacuation orders since the start of the war; Hamas revels in the death of its people.

I'll end the comment with this: The majority of Gazans support Hamas's rule, approve their decision to kill over 1,000 people without warning, believe they committed no atrocities on October 7th, and want Hamas to return to power once this war is over. They want this war.

quote
Ah yes, that makes it so much better. It's a shame it ended in the deaths of 32 innocent people.

And would you prefer I had specified the PLO in that post? A major power in the area?

So the statement that Hezbollah specifically has been continuously launching rockets for 20 years is false and I could have worded that better. Fair enough. But there's still been quite a lot of attacks on Israel originating from Lebanon since 2006.

Literally nowhere in the article does it mention this

From the article:

• Al Jazeera devotes a lot of time to playing a numbers game, claiming that very few children actually died. They claim that only 2 babies were killed on October 7th. Already, this is false, as at least three children under the age of 3 were killed. Further, 38 children were killed. Not in a crossfire. Not in the fog of war. But by being executed by Hamas fighters who could see they were children
• Al Jazeera blatantly lies about the sexual violence that occurred on October 7th, moving between claims that no rape occurred, to that some rapes occurred. Further arguments that it was not systematic are petty and irrelevant. Hamas fighters raped men and women and got away with it. That’s what matters.

For more specific sources, The Guardian reports that the UN reported “clear and convincing information” detailing rape of women and children hostages by Hamas. There's a link to their findings in the article. Per Reuters, the White House said it has no reason to doubt authenticity of Israeli attack images.

Read the links I sent you. That's on Israel to figure out.

Can you put it in your own words?

Criticizing Hamas of human rights abuses while not even acknowledging the human rights abuses perpetrated by Israel is incredibly hypocritical. Hamas are amateurs at this compared to Israel.

Here are a few key points from Amnesty International:

• Women do not have equal status under the law compared to men. Nearly 60% of women living there have experienced violence at the hands of their spouses. Barely any of these cases were reported to the authorities, let alone investigated.
• LGBT+ people have very few, if any, rights in Gaza, and Hamas has described attempts at changing this as promoting “deviance and moral decay”.
• There is a history of violations of freedom of association, notably involving government accountability and women's rights.

Oh yeah, and Hamas is still holding people hostage. Why?

I guess this article is just Israeli propaganda. And so is this history of the conflict, which documents or links to quite a few violations of ceasefires by Hamas.

Per the Wilson Center, "Since its creation in December 1987, Hamas has invoked militant interpretations of Islam to spearhead a Sunni extremist movement committed to destroying Israel."

Also according to them, Hezbollah's leader Nasrallah has also repeatedly vowed to destroy Israel.

Would you like to dispute these statements?

Per the article, Hamas still engaged in quite a lot of rape, some of it documented on video, and 38 children were executed, including 3 under the age of three. Were babies beheaded? Apparently not, but children still died at the hands of Hamas murderers. And there's an entire article on Wikipedia about the sexual violence that happened on that day.

How was Hamas forced to kill over a thousand civilians, including women and children? How were they forced to open fire on a music festival? How does that solve the problem of Israeli settlers? How do these solve anything?

There's also an overwhelming amount of evidence for Hamas's continued human rights abuses, including among them the continued hostage situation (although it's anyone's guess on how many of those hostages still live.)

So, would you kill every single Israeli civilian if they were unable to leave Israel? Because that's what Hamas and Hezbollah want to do, with the assistance of Iran.

Yes, actually, the source does discredit Al-Jazeera's claims. Here are a few points from the article:

• Al Jazeera claims that these protests were entirely peaceful, while ironically showing footage of a young boy using a slingshot to throw either a rock or explosive towards the border fence.
• It should also be mentioned that while the protests are depicted as Palestinians merely wanting to return to their historical homes, this would not be peaceful. The majority of Palestinians do not seem willing to share the region with Jews. A one-state solution would necessitate a genocide of Jewish people. And a two-state solution will never work because Palestinian resistance groups insist on total domination.
• It claims, very innocently, that Hamas was elected as the Gazan government in 2006, without mentioning Hamas’ brutal killing of its political opposition and its violent seizing of all power shortly after those elections. Hamas is not just a terrorist organisation. It’s a brutal dictatorship that oppresses Gazans far more than Israel, as a foreign power, ever could.
• Footage is then shown of Hamas fighters attacking civilian areas, killing innocent people in their cars, and firing into windows of houses, cutting off women screaming. There is CCTV footage of Hamas fighters, fresh from killing, attacking a gas station convenience store, and proceeding to steal candy and pastries. I can’t imagine a normal person having the appetite to eat treats after committing such a slaughter.
• Taking civilian hostages is a war crime which has not been mentioned by Al Jazeera or many media or governments. Hamas clearly engaged in intentionally slaughtering civilians, another war crime. Israel’s alleged killing of Gazan civilians has all been as a result of air strikes or bombardment, where the fog of war obscures the true identities of the combatants. Hamas knowingly killed civilians. That should mean something.

It may not be the beginning of this entire conflict, but it did cause a drastic escalation. That much is undeniable. Hamas chose this, and this is the result.

What percentage of these attacks on Israel is justified to you? Particularly the ones involving killing civilians.

It's odd how three genocidal powers well known for their human rights abuses are completely correct in every atrocity they've committed in the last century. Have a nice day, it was good talking to you.

Here is a response to Al-Jazeera's October 7 documentary. And Hamas is still holding hostages from that day. Or is this whole article "pro-Israel propaganda"?

Oct 7th was what kicked this most recent madness off. If that didn't happen, Gaza would likely not have been leveled and many would not have died, to name a few things. Hamas started this fight in particular, and it's going to end one way or another.

This has all started because of an initial attempt at genocidal war against Israel and, following that, decades of attacks on the Jewish people.

Yeah... yeah, I'd say supporting Hamas is bad. Or is there no sacrifice too large for the Resistance?

How many of these brutal wars were started by Israel completely unprovoked, and how many of them were started because Israel's neighbors F-ed around before finding out?

7 Days to Die has a terrible problem with the devs not knowing what they want to do with the game. All they know is that the players are doing it wrong.

Lebanon is by no means innocent in this. These invasions haven't been happening unprovoked. The 1978 invasion was because of a massacre of civilians, and the 1982 war started because of an attempted assassination on Israel's PM. Should Israel just let their people get slaughtered?

So the Arab League didn't want to genocide Israel? Alright. It was good talking to you, I hope you have a good day.

It's a conflict that caused Hamas to rape and kill 1,500 people, including children, and launch tens of thousands of rockets indiscriminately into Israel. I guess the victims were all Zionist extremists, though.

Does that make Iran, Hezbollah, and Hamas any more likely to establish lasting peace with Israel if they surrender a tiny sliver of land?