solo @ solo @slrpnk.net

My main account is here. I'm also using this one: [solo@piefed.social](http

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1 yr. ago

Do you think that morality is relative to each person's view point or do you think that moral facts do not exist at all?

I think that morality is relative to each person and in the same time it is shaped from social and cultural norms.

In relation to your answer to my question, I came to realise that I don't think that I will get a satisfactory one, because of our different backgrounds. What I mean is that you talk with philosophical terms to a commoner. For example (and to my understanding) you talk about moral facts as a given term, and for me this notion doesn't even exist. Don't get me wrong, good for you!

Also, taking into consideration that our answers are getting longer and longer, maybe this could be a good exit point. So, I would like to thank you for the time you spent on this conversation, because I enjoy thinking and you gave me food for thought.

I was not satisfied by my previous answer, so I thought of deleting it and giving it another try.

So your suggestion is that we can keep our moral judgments out of practical considerations without espousing the objective truth of moral facts?

Not at all. I would be extremely hesitant to suggest something on this topic, for all people. In a way, this is the reason why I talked about how I see things on a personal level, specifically.

About the category error, once more I don't know the terms you use, so I will answer from what I understand by the way you describe them.

My question was related to a notion (objective morality), and not a physical object (i.e. a rock). Notions exist - to my understanding - because we use language, so we should be able to define them. An object like a rock, is there even if language is not used. So I don't see where the category error could be.

Finally, I will rephrase my 2-part question for clarity, because only half of it got kind of answered:

Since you claim that morality is objective I would assume that you would be capable of tracing where this objectivity comes from, how it emerged, and how it stays that way. I'm not too sure how to phrase this as a question, but it's something along those lines.

Also, if it were objective for all people, I imagine we would all know its content. But, for example, the terms morally good & morally bad even tho they are commonly used in modern languages, they often have different content. So, it seems clear to me that the terms morally good and bad are not objective. So which morality is objective? Please, describe the content of this notion you claim to be objective.

I don't know the term you mentioned so I'll be talking about the points you made, not the term itself.

So, I don't need morality to condemn the human suffering that slavery, female genital mutilation, or genocide creates. I don't need a moral lens for this, just a practical one -- out of solidarity, for freedom, equity, equality etc, for everyone on this planet. This is why it's easy for me to justify any fight for social justice. These fights are by default systemic so against the status quo. I hope it is clear why I don't need an objective moral truth.

I would like to ask you, when you say morality is objective who defines it and what is it?

The way I see things, there is nothing objective about morality because it is based on cultural principles, and these vary from place to place and through time as well.

Ok, I hear you about Press TV.

If you have links contradicting the content of the article itself, please share.

Note: About links from wiki on this topic I am skeptical after seeing the following video. So other sources are welcome.

Course: Zionist Editing on Wikipedia - Israel National News

And there is the Lancet Report:

Gaza death toll 40% higher than the official number, Lancet study finds - The Guardian

Analysis estimates death toll by end of June was 64,260, with 59% being women, children and people over 65

The actual report: Traumatic injury mortality in the Gaza Strip from Oct 7, 2023, to June 30, 2024: a capture–recapture analysis

I didn't know the Henry Jackson Society mentioned in this article. By doing a quick search I found this article, and it looks like it is funded by Zionists.

Islamophobia sponsored by Zionist think tanks

If you have info links contradicting it, please share.

Edit: the strikethrough

Archive link: https://archive.ph/OzV5s

Since this article is an adapted excerpt, of the book What a Bee Knows, perhaps one idea would be to download it and check out the bibliography for the relevant citations.

To where? Where will they go? Who will take them?

(To) Hospitals

How will they even be let out?

According to the article : "Under this ceasefire agreement, there is supposed to be a mechanism in place for medical evacuations. We've still not seen that process spelled out,"

I was under the impression that:

According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), the US accounted for 69% of Israel's imports of major conventional arms between 2019 and 2023.

And that:

In May 2024, the US confirmed it had paused a single consignment of 2,000lb and 500lb bombs over concerns Israel was going ahead with a major ground operation in the southern Gaza city of Rafah. But Biden immediately faced a backlash from Republicans in Washington and from Netanyahu who appeared to compare it to an "arms embargo". Biden has since partially lifted the suspension and not repeated it.

From Biden plans to send $8bn arms shipment to Israel - BBC - 4 January 2025

Relevant site:

The Forever Pollution Project - Journalists tracking PFAS across Europe

In January 2025, the Forever Lobbying Project exposes the lobbying and disinformation campaign orchestrated by the chemical and plastic lobbies to prevent the ban of these “forever chemicals” in the European Union. Fighting to keep their “chemical business as usual” with misleading, scaremongering arguments, polluting industries are shifting the burden of environmental contamination onto society, threatening the economic stability of European nations.

Working with 18 experts, the project calculated the cost of decontaminating Europe if nothing is done to combat PFAS emissions: the figure is more than €100 billion per year – and a staggering €2 trillion over twenty years.

From the link above:

• Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has held up the cabinet vote on the ceasefire deal that prompted premature celebrations in Gaza and was expected to take effect on Sunday, January 19.

• The Israeli military has stepped up attacks on the Gaza Strip since the announcement, killing at least 40 Palestinians, according to media reports.

Lancet's total mortality estimates from July 2024, are so much higher.

Counting the dead in Gaza: difficult but essential

By June 19, 2024, 37 396 people had been killed in the Gaza Strip

it is not implausible to estimate that up to 186 000 or even more deaths could be attributable to the current conflict in Gaza.

the author is suggesting that there are two different policies

The author describes the israeli apartheid in a deceitful way, which is very different to what you say. This is not an article that wants to draw attention to the Uyghur. It just tries to deflect the conversation from the Palestinian Genocide to something else.

Please see an article by Amnesty International from 2022, meaning before the current Genocide: Israel’s apartheid against Palestinians: a cruel system of domination and a crime against humanity

A few more of the plenty deceitful aspects in this article are bellow:

The United States has tried to pressure China’s leadership to end the Uyghurs’ mistreatment—for instance, by barring companies from importing products that originate in Xinjiang into the U.S.

Talking about these imports is one thing. Why not also talk about the US arm exports that kills Palestinian civilians? Regardless of the Leahy Law.

Israel was formed by Jews

No, it was created by Zionists, not Jews. These two words are not interchangeable. There are many Jews who oppose Zionism (please see Jewish Voice for Peace)

Israel, from this viewpoint, is an outgrowth of European colonialism; it represses and displaces a local people,

There is a word for these people: Palestinians.

Also, represses and displaces a local people? If past tense was used, this sentence would have some merit. Since it uses present tense, I can only say: this is not how I would describe a Genocide.

Sorry but whataboutism has its limits.

Also, from the posted article:

The Israelis keep the Palestinians something of a people apart

Is this how we describe apartheid now?

You linked to a press release at the bottom, not the report.

My bad. The posted article doesn't say anything about a specific report, it talks about "recorded incidents" or smth. So I fixed the description.

I found this relevant report from a couple of months back: Humanitarian Situation Update #234 | West Bank mentioning

Since 7 October 2023, OCHA documented nearly 1,600 attacks by Israeli settlers against Palestinians that resulted in casualties, property damage or both

And another one from September 2024, with similar info, but with charts and pies:

WEST BANK | VIOLENCE, DESTRUCTION AND DISPLACEMENT

I'm pretty sure in the OCHA site for the Occupied Palestinian Territories (https://www.ochaopt.org/), one can find more info. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to look into it further for now.

You're right. It looks like I misread the article, so deleting it.