shatal @ shatal @lemmy.world

Posts

10

Comments

77

Joined

2 yr. ago

I stand corrected. Looks like it was an isolated case and luckily there were no casualties. It also looks like it wasn't used for attack but rather for signalling, which is not illegal under international law.

Behadead babies is confirmed by numerous sources. Both the convoy and hospital have been shown to be most likely Hamas or PIJ by independent analysis. Same with 500 deaths at the hospital which analysis showed that it's unlikely to be more than a couple dozens. Tragedy and horrendous, but I don't see anyone condemning PIJ for it or calling them to stop firing rockets.

The main issue here is the burden of proof. It seems that Hamas word is taken at face value while Israel is always considered as lying. You either check facts, and then need to check the claims of both sides, or not. You either care about civilians and then need to care about civilians from both sides or not.

The last couple of weeks showed, at least to me, that many of the people that claim that they care about facts and civilians only do when it's for the "right" side.

1. That's just whataboutism.
2. Gaza was part of Egypt up until 55 years ago.
3. Hamas rockets are not weak, the portrayal of Children Throwing Stones from the 1990's is long gone - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi6uhOmTMWU
4. Israel didn't use Phosphorus bombs in Gaza (at least not this time). Israel didn't attack with Phosphorus bombs in Gaza. There is a record of using it for illumination and signalling, which is not illegal under international law.
5. It's not their bombs - it's them physically torturing civilians in the most horrendous ways. If you can't condemn that type of behaviour then you're clearly supporting it.

It seems that you either intentionally deflecting and lying, pushing propaganda or have no idea what you're talking about.

That's why I stopped trying.

People arguing whether babies were beheaded as if they're challenging a ref call. Their team is always right and 100% just, the other is always wrong and 100% evil and no one wants to hear that the truth is always gray and complex.

It's disheartening.

The same type of people that are capable of stabbing babies in their cribs.

At least in this case no one is making any excuses.

Deplorable.

There were some unconfirmed reports that the reason Hamas was able to do so much damage is because 3 battalions that were supposed to guard the border with Gaza were moved to the west bank to protect these illegal settlements.

The audacity to continue doing this shit while their country is still trying to recover from the biggest terrorist attack in their history is just unbelievable.

You're not wrong, but with the tensions in Israel's northern border and with Hizbolla signalling that they will launch an assault if Israel moves into Gaza, releasing the hostages might just be the excuse everyone needs to de-escalate.

Unfortunately Hamas's success was far beyond their expectations. They were left unchecked for hours and during that time chose to commit the worst type of atrocities.

In doing so, they validated Israelis fears that if the "Palestinians" could, they would torture, rape and kill every single Israeli including the elderly and children.

Israel is now a country in trauma and is driven by vengeance and fear.

Sadly, at this point, no amount of world criticism will make any difference.

The only way to prevent massive casualties on both sides is if Hamas releases the civilian hostages.

It's unclear.

Hamas clearly and obviously committed crimes against humanity (intentionally murdering civilians, raping, torturing and kidnapping).

Israel, so far, is playing in the gray areas. It's legal, according to international law, to lay siege on a population as long as it has a definitive and declared military purpose. It's illegal to do it to intentionally harm civilians or to intentionally starve them.

The main problem is that Hamas is using the Palestinians and hides amongst them. That makes the legal discussion very difficult because Israel can always say that they target Hamas and everything else is just collateral damage.

Unfortunately the Palestinians are getting f'ed from both sides here.

Not really, from what I read his approval rates dropped by more than 50%.

He's considered by many Israelis as responsible for the whole situation.

It didn't happen.

And if it happened then it wasn't me.

And if it was then it wasn't that bad.

And if it was then they deserved it <--- You are here.

In the context of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict:

Settlements - refers to illegal makeshift "towns" (usually no more than a few trailers) built on lands that belong to Palestinians by right wing Israeli extremists who believe that the entire land belongs to them. As of 2006, these are strictly in the west bank.

Everything else (city, town, kibutz etc) - traditional meaning but also indicates that they are within the official internationally recognised Israeli border.

I'm not sure which political system they are shut out off - the Palestinians have their own political system and leaders. It's just not democratic.

They are also not under any military rule except their own. Almost all of the Israeli military presence in Gaza and the west bank is either during wars (ridiculously called operations), or in checkpoints between these territories. They are currently fighting against a de-facto foreign government.

But you know what, let's assume that the situation is as you describe it. So, what you're saying is that there is an apartheid and the Palestinian want, in fact, to participate and vote for the Israeli government but are blocked from it. You're also saying that these settlers are all pure evil and want to inflict pain and suffering out of sheer sadism and hate. They deserve a death sentence. Is that about right?

By that logic, you'll be ok with native Americans or Australian Indigenous People pick up guns and knives and start shooting and stabbing random people in the streets?

This is not about sympathy and I'm not justifying their actions. I'm saying something really simple - do you honestly believe that the actions of a person who took a gun and shot with the intend of killing as many unarmed civilians, who didn't actively attack anyone, is justifiable? As someone from the political left, I'm honestly baffled by how other people holding liberal opinions have no problem justifying terrorists and murderers as long as it's Palestinians vs Jews.

Like all things, it's complicated. It's not that they invaded an existing city, deported everyone and colonised it.

This area is a no-man's land, technically not owned by any country. The area that they built the settlement was uninhabited before they came along. Is it ok? I agree, no, they have no business being there.

But do you really believe that they deserve a death penalty for it?

You're right. And a territory ownership dispute totally justifies shooting and trying to kill unarmed civilians. Be better. Also, phrase better. A Palestinian shot six people. An off duty officer shot back and killed him.