roastedDeflator @ roastedDeflator @kbin.social

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2 yr. ago

I see your point. The percentages of the zionist migrations during last century are one thing, let's say. The percentages of the current population is another story.

Personally, I totally don't trust wiki in relation to its content on the matter so I will use another source that I do trust: the Jewish Voice for Peace FACT SHEET from 2015. Of course they have different and more recent percentages but this does not affect the point. Amongst other very interesting things they say:

Of 7 million Israelis, 35-40% are Mizrahim, 15% are Russian immigrants, 20% are Palestinian Israelis, 2.2% are Ethiopian, and 25-30% are Ashkenazi Jews and others. This means 55-60% of the Israeli population is ‘nonwhite’; together, Mizrahim and Palestinian Israelis form a majority.

a large part of israeli jews came back from arab countries

I wouldn't call it large. Check out in this article the pi chart called
Figure 2: New immigrants in Israel according to country of origin, 2006 (bpb) Lizenz: cc by-nc-nd/2.0/de

Of course if you have a source that says otherwise, I'd be happy to take a look at it.

I suppose next you’ll want links and proof that the Holocaust actually happened?

You wrongly suppose so.

This place is really becoming part of the Palestinian propaganda machine.

Wow, I wasnt wrong.

Criticizing Israel for the Genocide it is currently doing is one thing. Relating this criticism to a Palestinian propaganda machine is another. Do you by any chance have any link -that is not related to zionist sources or wiki- to support your claim?

Of course , this is what the UN is there for. I believe we have to be vocal -literally and metaphorically- to stop this Genocide. For those who have access/work in bureaucracy they should do these actions. For the rest of us that do not, we should be on the streets etc

most israelis have the same skin color as most palestinians…

No. A small percentage of Jewish people have been living there. Most went to the place that had the historical toponym Palestine from all over the world with the various waves of Zionist settler-colonialism in the last 100 years, approximately.

Also, Judaism is a religion that someone can convert into. Almost anyone, to almost any of its forms that is. So let's leave the skin colors of Israelis out of the conversation in relation to Palestinians. Please.

An interesting article relevant article from Haaretz They Didn't Want Ethiopian Jews in Israel, Either

I agree with you when you say that of accountability is important but this move doesn't stop the Genocide.

Here is video that explains in about 12 minutes how the judicial system works in Israel:

Why Israel has so many Palestinian prisoners? - Vox - Dec 2023

There have been issues in the area for many decades now, since the 1960's. Once more, they are all related to colonial borders after the Dutch left Indonesia. Funny thing this article doesn't mention anything of the kind?

No paywall link

I do understand your point and I do not want to derail the conversation from what you say, but I also have to mention that the following is highly problematic

At the international level, we live in anarchy

Anarchy is a political movement that aims to have societies with horizontal organization. Of course there are many flavors, different proposals on how to achieve this etc. We definitely do not live in such conditions. On the contrary we live in highly hierarchical societies, some would argue that we have totalitarian tendencies lately.

Anyways please do not be one of those that misuse the term anarchy like we see in mainstream media for instance.

Archive link

Yeah no wonder. I'm one of those that read half of it, just because some titles are misleading. Well it's clearly not one of those.

If those scientists tried stuff on themselves, I wouldn't object.
Doing these stuff to other creatures and also trying to justify them... NO. JUST NO.

My point was that people who have family and friends in Israel demand a ceasefire, and want us to Tell Congress: Demand Biden reinstate UNRWA funding, and have practical suggestions on how to act now ect

So having Chicago -amongst other cities- stand with them for peace, I think it's great move.

Thank you so much for informing me of this mess. Fixed.

Like Jewish Voice for Peace do? Ask for a ceasefire I mean. Or as they say:

URGENT: Demand a ceasefire now.
Millions of lives depend on it.

Also, hope you don't mind when they say:

WE HAVE A PLAN TO END U.S. SUPPORT
FOR ISRAEL’S OPPRESSION OF PALESTINIANS

Jewish Voice for Peace is the largest progressive Jewish anti-Zionist organization in the world.

We’re organizing a grassroots, multiracial, cross-class, intergenerational movement of U.S. Jews into solidarity with Palestinian freedom struggle.

If you’ve been looking for a political home for Jews on the left in this perilous moment; if you’ve been wanting a Jewish community with justice at the center; if you’ve been looking to turn your rage and grief into meaningful, strategic action:
Join us. You belong here.

Personally, I don't care about these statistics. The point I was trying to make was that under capitalism any industry has the goal to make huge amounts of profit. Coal, nuclear you name it. Nothing is about sustainability, unless it is related to greenwashing. So I don't trust their approach, including the safety of these places. Also the need for more power is for industry expansion, not to heat our homes for instance.

[By the way, I am not a communist. Mondragon is a model of non-capitalistic industrial development that has been successfully expanding since the 1950's. By no means am I saying their approach is perfect, nor that perfection is the goal. Their example is important tho cause we can learn from them. For the Cleveland Model, they used Modragon's input. They refers to Gar Alperorovitz amongst others]

There’s a reason a two state solution has only ever worked on paper.

Actually there are several. For me seeing an article like that from the side of the settler-colonials gives me hope. The apartheid in South Africa wouldn't have been abolished without the consent of the the colonizers.

Found another one from Haaretz today that is interesting. Archive link:

Israel's beef isn't with UNRWA. It's with Palestinian refugees' right of return

This week I saw a video from Noga Arbell, a researcher at the right-wing Kohelet Forum, in which she commented on Israel's suspicions about a number of UNRWA employees' involvement in the October 7 attacks.

Her comments included the following: "To win the war, UNRWA needs to be annihilated because UNRWA is the source of the idea. It gives birth to more and more terrorists in all kinds of ways. UNRWA needs to be wiped out immediately – now – or Israel will miss the window of opportunity."

The idea that Arbell was referring to isn't exactly UNRWA. The organization represents something much bigger – the ethos of being a Palestinian refugee, or in other words, the right of return for Palestinian refugees. When she wants to annihilate UNRWA, she actually wants to annihilate Palestinian history – to erase it. And now she's seeing a window of opportunity.

In short, back then the Jews in Israel did everything to expel Palestinians and to prevent them from returning to their homes – all by "helping" the Palestinians to become absorbed in their new places of residence and with Jews settling where they had been living.

The Jews' problem in the State of Israel is that they think everything is obtainable by force – annihilating UNRWA, annihilating Hamas, dictating the future of the Palestinians, telling them what to forgo and what not to, as well as where to go, who should be their leader and what their identity is. And when these Palestinians don't toe the line, the Jews decide for them – by force, of course.