polyploy @ polyploy @lemmy.dbzer0.com

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2 yr. ago

Wechat has over a billion active users, it's the world's only super app. There are probably tens of thousands of users in Montreal alone. This is like saying "anybody using whatapp is already compromised" it's ridiculous.

Yeah it would have been more appropriate to say "Chinese-speaking audiences" on my part, especially given the concern seems to be that it was aimed at Canadian voters who can read/speak the language.

The second link was definitely the one I was more referring to when talking about editorializing and characterizations, it's more emotive language overall but it still doesn't really say anything wrong or misleading. Disagreeing with the characterization could be reasonable, but the tone of it is like any sensationalized news aggregator blog or social media account anywhere else in the world. Like we don't call it misinformation when people post a video called "[Public Figure] DESTROYED in HEATED DEBATE!" even if we roll our eyes at the language, and similarly any kind of social media format lends itself to catchier and more dramatic descriptions.

The lack of attribution could actually be the real source of concern. It's possible there's some disagreements on wording in a translation, or that not having direct links to sources is viewed as misleading but again... it's not hard to see that's exactly how just about any social media news account tends to function these days.

It just honestly feels like this is the Canadian government grasping at straws, especially given that this is being treated like overt election interference from the Chinese government. Given that there is a much more present and obvious concern about US interference. Most of our media outside the CBC and all of our social media is directly owned by US corporations that are backing the fascist threatening to annex us. I don't understand why the fed and CSIS keep issuing these warnings about often dubious claims of malicious state actors from elsewhere, it's maddening.

The funny thing is that you can actually check the official Canadian source right here that links to two posts directly (one and two) and if you use some browser translation you can see exactly what the articles actually say which is... literally just a news update for Chinese audiences offering a summary of Carney's past behavior and achievements. It's not even really negative, if anything it's just vaguely uncertain.

I have read them both twice and am not really really finding any false narratives to speak of. The only real editorializing is in portrayal of current exchanges between Trump, Carney, and Trudeau, and if we're going to consider any kind of characterization of foreign political leaders as somehow pushing a false narrative then we should probably take a look at how all our own media reports on the US, EU, and elsewhere ourselves.

Granted, I don't speak mandarin and there is always a possibility that there are more skewed statements that are being lost in translation, but I don't really understand why these particular posts summarizing Canadian electoral politics for Chinese readers on wechat are somehow some kind of election interference.

A snippet, from one of the posts that is being framed as some kind of attack on Carney, which is actually titled "The United States is facing a tough prime minister from Canada":

Who is Mark Carney? What is his campaign message? Can he lead Canada through the current crisis?

Carney was born in a small town called Fort Smith in the northwest region of Canada. His mother was a teacher and his father was the principal of a local high school. He later became a professor of education at the University of Alberta. Carney, who grew up in an academic family, originally dreamed of becoming a marine biologist, but changed his mind after being admitted to the Department of Economics at Harvard University. He admitted: "I came to Harvard from Canada with a large student loan, and the most effective way to repay the loan was to become a banker."

After that, Carney graduated from Harvard University and Oxford University, spent 13 years in investment banking at Goldman Sachs, and then returned to Canada to start a public service.

In 2008, Carney, who was only 42 years old, became the governor of the Bank of Canada and was praised for his quick and effective response to the financial crisis. Carney then moved to London to take charge of the Bank of England, the central bank of the United Kingdom, becoming the first foreign governor in the bank's 300-year history.

The British media called him a "rock star economist" for his series of modern reforms to the traditional Bank of England.

During his tenure in the UK, Carney helped the UK through the turbulent period after Brexit and was called "the only adult in the room." But at the same time, Carney also caused controversy for repeatedly warning about the economic risks of Britain's withdrawal from the EU and making remarks about the risks of climate change to financial markets.

After leaving his post as Governor of the Bank of England in 2020, Carney served as UN Special Envoy for Climate Action and Finance, Chairman of Bloomberg, and Chairman of Brookfield Asset Management.

His professional achievements have earned Carney a large support base among Canadian Liberal MPs.

Earlier, Canadian Foreign Minister Joly said Carney was "capable of dealing with major crises". Canadian Environment Minister Guilbeault believed that Carney was best suited to "manage" US President Trump and lead the Canadian economy to achieve energy transformation in the coming years.

Genocide is actually very clearly defined under international law. To quote directly from the source:

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Any single one of these criteria individually is enough to meet the definition of genocide. Every single one of these has already occurred and is ongoing, and it is only through pure delusion, media control, and wishful ignorance that anyone can claim otherwise.

There is virtually no dissent among actual scholars and experts in the field of international law, Israel is unequivocally perpetrating genocide. They have simply not been held to account for their actions yet, due primarily to complicity from allies and collaborators who do not want to be criminalized for their actions as well. People are also not their rulers, and they have been watching those running their governments provide diplomatic, strategic, and political cover for some of the worst atrocities in human history.

Make no mistake though, justice will come for Israel, and hopefully every state and individual actor who has supported and covered for it as well.

For people like yourself, I hope you understand that at some point in the future you're going to have to live in a world that sees you for exactly what you are. Israel will be remembered as exactly what it is, and you will know you were one of its defenders.

When you hear stories of traumatized, maimed, orphaned children, of mothers forced to endure c sections without anesthesia, of the weeping friends and family of journalists, medical workers, educators, caretakers, and innocents of all walks of life as they and their loved ones were targeted and massacred by an inhuman genocidal apartheid state, you will have to reckon with the fact that you stood on the side of the perpetrators.

Is it though, especially given the present trajectory and conduct of the Trump regime?

The 22,600 figure is most likely a severe underestimate of the people murdered by occupation forces in Gaza (and elsewhere, because they've been murdering people in the West Bank and Lebanon as well). I shared this in another comment but The Lancet published this which determined there was no evidence that the Gaza Ministry of Health is inflating these statistics, if anything they are being under reported.

As for how many are "actual civilians" the way that is being reported currently heavily favors the narrative of the occupation because the assumption is simply that all males over the age of 13 are combatants, and even using this absurd framing around 61% of those killed are women and children. The occupation forces have proportionately killed more journalists and UN aid workers than in any other conflict in recent history.

History will judge Israel and its supporters harshly.

Israeli soldiers have repeatedly been found using human shields and forcing civilians to risk their lives performing military tasks.

There are a lot of terrible people doing terrible things to humanity and the planet, and I'll be damned if I let those fucking ghouls outlive me.

Ah yes, the critical necessary work of waiting to vote every four years, sitting on your ass hoping fascism will sort itself out, and expecting the institutions you take for granted to protect you. Extremely brave and level headed, not cowardly or delusional in the least. /s

The weird insinuation that I am in any way related to or supportive of Russia is a nice touch, because nothing says "moving forward with progress" like demonizing an entire population, almost all of whom have as little control over their government as you do yours. I'm sure those neofascists are shaking in their boots.

His supporters are the cops. His followers are already in office, in courts, in law enforcement, and in the military at every level of each. They are already actively hurting people, indoctrinating children, destroying the environment, criminalizing minorities, brutalizing and killing dissidents, and both passing and enforcing laws to aid them in doing all of the aforementioned.

This is not a mindless panic. Women are having their rights repealed, queer folks are facing increasing violence and threats of imprisonment, and just about every visible minority is facing higher incidence of hate crimes and discrimination. The majority of americans are living paycheck to paycheck, and people can't afford average rent on average income (let alone minimum wage) in any city in the country. People are fucking starving and dying on the street, and the number one cause of bankruptcy is medical debt which is something that shouldn't even exist.

The refusal to reconcile reality with this fantasy of a powerful and healthy country is part of what has enabled fascists to ascend once more, and what keeps burying the bar for democrats further underground.

Every time Trump gets put on TV because people like yourself are convinced that this time will finally be his undoing, his base and support grows. The amount of free publicity this fuck has gotten from people that are ostensibly his opponents is staggering. If you keep assuming that laws, ethics, morals, and rules are going to be followed by fascists, you're in for a rude awakening.

edit: a couple words

Right but what makes you think that'll stop them from doing it anyway? Bending and breaking rules is their bread and butter, this is no different.

Even if he's barred, I don't imagine anyone winning the GOP primary without a pledge to pardon him once elected. Beyond that, it seems that people really do not want to consider the very real possibility of a coup or jail break. Every time these fucks escalate there's a chorus of wilfully ignorant liberals bleating about "who could have seen this coming???" and every time there have been people like me begging them to take the threat seriously and to stop imagining there will be some moment when they finally see reason and accept defeat. The democratic strategy for opposing fascism seems to be just never losing another election, and somehow think throwing their most vulnerable constituents under the bus and catering to republicans and the mythical undecided voter is going to grow their lead enough to make that happen.

I'm saying all this not to frighten people but to try to wake them up to the reality of the threat we face, because right now we're sleepwalking into fascists seizing power.

To be clear, my issue was never about whether or not Trump should be put on trial, but rather the terrible idea of televising it and turning it into an opportunity for him to promote himself. I do think he should face consequences for his actions, but people keep putting this sack of shit on TV, doing his publicity for him, and then being shocked when it turns out in his favor every single time. No matter the verdict, because of how much of an event this will be, he will most likely come out the other end with greater and stronger support.

He will probably be found guilty, but what I am trying to illustrate is that he could not ask for a better stage to sell himself as the embattled, targeted, brave leader in the war against the deep state. Think of how often he speaks to his base about the nebulous "they" that are against him, "they" want to silence him, "they" want to put him in jail because he's telling it like it is and threatening the woke agenda or whatever the fuck. People here are convinced this will be the ultimate comeuppance, but his supporters are going to see their saint being persecuted by his adversaries.

So many in here are treating this like a victory lap, but it's a fucking campaign ad. If he's somehow barred from running, you know who I think will win the republican nomination? Whoever pledges to pardon him as soon as they enter office.

It's not pessimism. Fascists are already banning books, criminalizing trans people, reversing environmental protections, outlawing abortion and criminalizing those that seek them, rewriting school curricula with historical revisionism and fascist propaganda to suit their needs, perpetrating hate crimes, discriminating against minorities and political opponents, and their media is cranking out fuel for stochastic terrorism day after day. Hell, on the primary debate stage the other day, the candidates were talking about how they would each approach executing people at the border. Of course there was a layer of euphemism, it was about "lethal force in border security", but a whole hell of a lot of the people on the receiving end of that are migrants and refugees fleeing the conditions american foreign and economic policy has subjected them to.

I have clearly touched a nerve here because there are a lot of upset people downvoting what I'm saying, but I am not being a cynic or a defeatist, I am begging people to reckon with the reality of what is already happening. As I've said repeatedly, this trial is literally about how he incited his supporters to attempt overthrowing an election, and people are in here acting as if all that matters is how this might sway voters.

Fascists do not care about democracy, why do you think the GOP spends as much time as it does gerrymandering and messing with voter eligibility, closing polling stations, and purging rolls? They are not going to be voted away, and they are not going to give a fuck about whatever ethics people are just hoping they will abide by. Rules are seen as an obstacle to be overcome, not a boundary which cannot be crossed.

I said this in another reply but I'm going to repeat it here: ask yourself how much of his base are cops and soldiers, and then think about who it is that you're expecting to step in when his base takes another swing.

As I replied to another person above, if you think my message was about votes and elections then you've misunderstood. This is quite literally a trial about an attempted overthrow of an election, their disdain for democracy is clear as day. The extent of that disdain, and what his base might be willing to do to get him in power regardless is exactly what I am trying to get people not to underestimate. Also, it might be a sobering thought to consider how many cops and soldiers are part of his base.

edit: a couple words I missed

If you read what I wrote and thought I was worried about how this would affect votes then you've missed the point completely. They do not care about votes or elections, their figurehead is literally on trial for trying to overturn the last one.

Begging people to understand the severity of the threat Trump and his followers pose is a "loser defeatist attitude"? If you genuinely think that anyone still supporting him is going to come out of watching this man on TV thinking less of him, or seeing it as a serious matter instead of some kind of political assassination of their dear leader, then you've not been paying attention for years.

How many times have liberals been convinced "surely, this will be the end of him!" only for it to galvanize his base and further cement him as their figurehead? Stop thinking that his base has an even remotely similar worldview to yourself, you could show them all the evidence in the world of his wrongdoing and they will still find a way to pretend it's not true. This is what I am trying to get people to understand, if you think fascists play by the rules you are sorely mistaken.

I'm just gonna ask you to take a moment and think about the gulf of disparity between these two figures in real terms. One ran a rather successful conspiracy grift show and the other is the former president, on trial for inciting others to attempt overthrowing an election. The fact that you're even comparing the two as if people will drop Trump as readily as they did Jones, when he is still the front runner for candidacy by an enormous margin while gearing up to go on trial for treason is exactly the kind of underestimation I'm talking about.

This is going to backfire in a big way. Whole lot of people seem to think this will be justice porn or somehow convince his base of his criminality but it is going to do no such thing. According to one poll, the majority (77%) of likely GOP primary voters are already convinced the trial is "politically motivated", with only 8% more concerned about him attempting to overturn an election. You can take a look at some polling here, there are other even more troublesome results as well: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-poll-indictments-2023-08-20/

No matter how awful, contradictory, and ridiculous he will be in that court room, this is likely going to be a massive boon for Trump, and his followers are going to see it as the realization of their own fears of persecution. This man is an ascendant fascist leader, not the sad sack finally facing consequences that liberals so desperately want him to be, and the effect this will have on mobilizing his base to continue to escalate will be immense. These people do not give a single fuck about """law and order""" no matter how much they pretend they do, stop assuming they will just accept things when he is found guilty. They won't.

I'm just trying to help people realize how dangerous and precarious this whole situation is. People were laughing and making jokes when he first announced his candidacy, and kept on doing it right up to the point that he won the election. Don't make the same mistake again, because while yall are cracking jokes, him and his ghouls are hurting people. They are passing discriminatory laws, they are in the supreme court setting dangerous precedents and overturning inconvenient ones, and they are patrolling the streets looking for people to brutalize and throw in jail. They are committing hate crimes and becoming increasingly radicalized and mobilized.

Stop pretending this is entertainment or business as usual, it's not. I'm begging you to understand that the fascists are already here, and the longer they're underestimated the better their chances of seizing control.