stravanasu @ pglpm @lemmy.ca

Posts

38

Comments

279

Joined

2 yr. ago

When I used to run simulations, a current of the size of the Gulf Stream could be turned on (with winds and Earth's rotation), from nothing, in around 400 years (see p. 68). Then it maintained steadily. But turning off or changing in important ways can happen much faster. I'd like to know as well. There should be open-access articles in that journal about this.

Yeah this was one of the best episodes with King!

Warning spoilers 😉

Glorious! 🤣 🤣 🤣

Amen.

They can setup arbitrary rules or ban you without any rules. It’s their service,

Indeed this shows the change in meaning that "service" has undergone in the past 10 or maybe 20 years. Before, the very notion of "service" was that this kind of events could not happen – otherwise it wasn't a "service". Reliability and reliance were integral part of the definition of "service".

Today this word doesn't mean anything anymore.

You're simplifying the situation and dynamics of science too much.

If you submit or share a work that contains a logical or experimental error – it says "2+2=5" somewhere – then yes, your work is not accepted, it's wrong, and you should discard it too.

But many works have no (visible) logical flaws and present hypotheses within current experimental errors. They explore or propose, or start from, alternative theses. They may be pursued and considered by a minority, even a very small one, while the majority pursues something else. But this doesn't make them "rejected". In fact, theories followed by minorities periodically have breakthroughs and suddenly win the majority. This is a vital part of scientific progress. Except in the "2+2=5" case, it's a matter of majority/minority, but that does emphatically not mean acceptance/rejection.

On top of that, the relationship between "truth" and "majority" is even more fascinatingly complex. Let me give you an example.

Probably (this is just statistics from personal experience) the vast majority of physicists would tell you that "energy is conserved". A physicist specialized in general relativity, however, would point out that there's a difference between a conserved quantity (somewhat like a fluid) and a balanced quantity. And energy strictly speaking is balanced, not conserved. This fact, however, creates no tension: if you have a simple conversation – 30 min or a couple hours – with a physicist who stated that "energy is conserved", and you explain the precise difference, show the equations, examine references together etc, that physicist will understand the clarification and simply agree; no biggie. In situations where that physicist works, this results in little practical difference (but obviously there are situations where the difference is important.)

A guided tour through general relativity (see this discussion by Baez as a starting point, for example) will also convince a physicist who still insisted that energy is conserved even after the balance vs conservation difference was clarified. With energy, either "conservation" makes no sense, or if we want to force a sense, then it's false. (I myself have been on both sides of this dialogue.)

This shows a paradoxical situation: the majority may state something that's actually not true – but the majority itself would simply agree with this, if given the chance! This paradoxical discrepancy arises especially today owing to specialization and too little or too slow osmosis among the different specialities, plus excessive simplification in postgraduate education (they present approximate facts as exact). Large groups maintain some statements as facts simply because the more correct point of view is too slow to spread through their community. The energy claim is one example, there are others (thermodynamics and quantum theory have plenty). I think every physicist working in a specialized field is aware about a couple of such majority-vs-truth discrepancies. And this teaches humbleness, openness to reviewing one's beliefs, and reliance on logic, not "majorities".

Edit: a beautiful book by O'Connor & Weatherall, The Misinformation Age: How False Beliefs Spread, discusses this phenomenon and models of this phenomenon.

Peer review, as the name says, is review, not "acceptance". At least in principle, its goal is to help you check whether the logic behind your analysis is sound and your experiments have no flaws. That's why one can find articles with completely antithetical results or theses, both peer-reviewed (and I'm not speaking of purchased pseudo peer-review). Unfortunately it has also become a misused political or business tool, that's for sure – see "impact factors", "h-indexes", and similar bulls**t.

That's how I interpret it. My question is if it's generally interpreted that way, or misinterpreted.

It should appear if you do a search in your instance about "communities", with this string:

    
!typography@lemmy.world


  

The community link should appear, and if you click on it you should be redirected to it through your instance.

PS: give my regards to Merry and Pippin! :)

🤣

True that! and a change from 2% to 5% may feel much larger than that.

One aspect that I've always been unsure about, with Stack Overflow, and even more with sibling sites like Physics Stack Exchange or Cross Validated (stats and probability), is the voting system. In the physics and stats sites, for example, not rarely I saw answers that were accepted and upvoted but actually wrong. The point is that users can end up voting for something that looks right or useful, even if it isn't (probably less the case when it comes to programming?).

Now an obvious reply to this comment is "And how do you know they were wrong, and non-accepted ones right?". That's an excellent question – and that's exactly the point.

In the end the judge about what's correct is only you and your own logical reasoning. In my opinion this kind of sites should get rid of the voting or acceptance system, and simply list the answers, with useful comments and counter-comments under each. When it comes to questions about science and maths, truth is not determined by majority votes or by authorities, but by sound logic and experiment. That's the very basis from which science started. As Galileo put it:

But in the natural sciences, whose conclusions are true and necessary and have nothing to do with human will, one must take care not to place oneself in the defense of error; for here a thousand Demostheneses and a thousand Aristotles would be left in the lurch by every mediocre wit who happened to hit upon the truth for himself.

For example, at some point in history there was probably only one human being on earth who thought "the notion of simultaneity is circular". And at that time point that human being was right, while the majority who thought otherwise were wrong. Our current education system and sites like those reinforce the anti-scientific view that students should study and memorize what "experts" says, and that majorities dictate what's logically correct or not. As Gibson said (1964): "Do we, in our schools and colleges, foster the spirit of inquiry, of skepticism, of adventurous thinking, of acquiring experience and reflecting on it? Or do we place a premium on docility, giving major recognition to the ability of the student to return verbatim in examinations that which he has been fed?"

Alright sorry for the rant and tangent! I feel strongly about this situation.

Thank you! never heard of, it looks very interesting!

A repository of often (or at least not seldom) outdated answers.

🤣 🤣

Sounds interesting, go ahead!

Musk's attitude is "It's mine, I can do whatever I please". In the long run a person's reply to this attitude is "Fair enough, keep it. I'll use something else". Like I and many others have.

It has helped me invaluably, thank you!

By the way, the "trigger search" button at the moment leads to a search with text

    
community!community@instance.etc


  

but the first community should be dropped. OK this is not the place for tracking issues, sorry!

Understandably, it has become an increasingly hostile or apatic environment over the years. If one checks questions from 10 years ago or so, one generally sees people eager to help one another.

Now they often expect you to have searched through possibly thousands of questions before you ask one, and immediately accuse you if you missed some – which is unfair, because a non-expert can often miss the connection between two questions phrased slightly differently.

On top of that, some of those questions and their answers are years old, so one wonders if their answers still apply. Often they don't. But again it feels like you're expected to know whether they still apply, as if you were an expert.

Of course it isn't all like that, there are still kind and helpful people there. It's just a statistical trend.

Possibly the site should implement an archival policy, where questions and answers are deleted or archived after a couple of years or so.