paintbucketholder @ paintbucketholder @lemmy.world

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Because Israel always gets held to a different standard.

Now the question is: why is that?

Saying Fuck Gaza is like saying fuck Wyoming, so sure why not? We say fuck Texas, or fuck Florida all the time.

The West Bank is ruled by Fatah. Gaza is ruled by Hamas, partly because after Israel withdrew from Gaza, removed all Israeli settlers in Gaza, tore down illegal Israeli settlements and handed over other Israeli infrastructure to the Palestinians, Hamas got into power and never held elections again. Oh, and they also murdered Fatah members and instituted a de facto dictatorship.

So it makes sense to look at Gaza separately from the West Bank.

Saying fuck Palestine would be the equivalent to Saying fuck Israel.

Well, all right then: are you okay with people saying 'Fuck Palestine" if they just dislike Hamas?

Just because no one said that about America doesn't mean this one isn't genocide. Just because one nation got away with it in the past does not make this any less genocide than it is.

That's right.

However, if incredibly different standards are being used depending on the nation in question, that certainly raises suspicions that people are not actually criticizing the act (a military intervention to combat a terrorist organization), but rather the nation itself.

If two countries can have the exact same experience (a terrorist attack that killed hundreds of its citizens), react to that in the exact same way (a military intervention determined to root out there terrorist organization at any cost, willingly accepting that thousands of civilians are being killed as "collateral damage"), but one gets accused of committing genocide while the other one gets celebrated (remember "Mission Accomplished" or the spontaneous celebrations when bin Laden was killed?), doesn't that warrant the question why identical actions get treated so differently?

It took decades to build a strong case against genocide in Israel. It's not a word people toss around lightly.

America occupied Iraq and Afghanistan for decades. Why wasn't the same "strong case" never built against America? Why are people accusing Israel of genocide for killing thousands, but nobody has ever bothered accusing America of genocide for causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands?

You say that America is to powerful, that nobody could stand in it's way - but that shouldn't have stopped human rights organizations from saying that America is committing genocide, that shouldn't have stopped the UN from accusing America of genocide, that shouldn't have stopped people to demonstrate in the streets with Iraqi or Afghan flags demanding "free Afghanistan."

Why did none of that happen?

Would you apply those same standards to Gaza?

Would you say you hate "Gaza" if you hated the government that rules it, but not the millions of Palestinians living there?

Would you say "fuck Gaza" if you had no issues with the majority of Palestinians?

Because to me, it just seems that people apply wildly different standards. People seem to explain "here is my standard" when talking about one side, and then they absolutely refuse to adhere to their own standard when talking about the other side.

They could also apply asymmetric warfare strictly against military targets, and guerilla movements in other conflicts have done exactly that.

Nobody forces Hamas to murder civilians. It's something they're doing out of their own volition.

I'm not defending the tactics used by the Israeli military.

At the same time, they're using tactics that are pretty similar to the tactics used by the United States in Iraq and in Afghanistan - yet even back then, despite all the opposition took America's military interventions, we didn't see people around the world claim that America was committing genocide or that America was s terrorist state.

Yet those labels are constantly applied to Israel.

Why do you think there's this difference?

And I never said that, either. I was asking whether or not somegeek was equating Israel with all Israelis, since they didn't make a distinction (e.g. by saying "the state of Israel" or "the IDF" or "the Netanyahu administration").

Seems fair in light of the broad statement made by somegeek.

Sure. Equating Israel with all Jews is just as wrong as equating the state of Israel with all those living within it.

Well, is the poster up there saying that all Israelis are terrorists?

Conversely, what would saying "Palestine is the terrorist of the human race imply?" That some Palestinians are terrorists? That many Palestinians are terrorists? That all Palestinians are terrorists?

Just like when they thought that yelling "Let's Go Brandon" was sooo fucking clever.

Sorry this is a barrage of accusations i dont have the time to try and dig through myself.

I understand.

You're trying to defend the massacres committed by Hamas as legitimate self-defense. You're trying to defend Hamas as a bunch of freedom fighters protecting Palestinian civilians.

Of course you're not going to look up evidence that Hamas has been making Palestinians' lives miserable. That would run counter to that narrative.

Most people will buy a computer, that computer will have Windows 11 on it, they'll start using that computer and the pre-installed OS that came with it, and maybe, occasionally, they will complain that "this is different now" and that "they always change things, it's so annoying" and that will be the end of it.

If you're talking about people who install or even just upgrade the OS on their computer by themselves, are aware of such a concept as "alternative operating systems," engage in any kind of conversation about operating systems on social media, and then care enough about the topic to downvote people who disagree with them on purely ideological grounds, you're already talking about a tiny, tiny minority of computer users.

He's running for the office of President of The United States of America, and the multi-billionaire who owns what is still one of the world's most influential social media platforms openly spouts antisemitic rhetoric.

It seems pretty fair to ask a candidate about his view on that issue.

Hamas is not fighting for the "plight of Gazans" - they're on record saying that the Palestinians are not their responsibility.

That's probably why they don't give a fuck if their rockets detonate and explode in Gaza, killing hundreds of Palestinians. That's probably why they launch rockets from hospitals and schools. That's probably why they hide weapons production facilities next to places of worship. That's probably why they shoot Palestinians who are trying to evacuate. That's probably why they abduct, imprison, torture and murder Palestinians who they perceive to be enemies. That's probably why they close down, shutter and burn down Palestinian coffee shops, hotels, shops, water parks, and entertainment venues out of "religious concerns."

Really, you're assuming that Hamas is fighting for the Palestinians, but all evidence points to the exact opposite.

They're a terrorist organization that murders people in cold blood, and they rule over Gaza in a reign of terror.

Yes, they corrected the number down to 1,200.

They originally assumed that it was 1,400 dead civilians, but identifying mangled and burned bodies is apparently taking a while.

Ah the same time, the number of dead at the festival has been corrected from an estimate of 200 to at least 350.

Trying to break the walls of their open air prison thats killing everyone inside.

Hamas murdered 1,200 civilians in Israel.

If you think that's just fine in order to reach some abstract goal, you really have no leg to stand on complaining about the IDF killing civilians inside Gaza.

Isn't it weird how nobody ever says that Hamas is committing genocide when they don't give a fuck about where their rockets explode in Gaza, when they're murdering Palestinians who are trying to evacuate, when they're using Palestinian civilians as human shields, when they're firing rockets from civilian Palestinian infrastructure, deliberately making it a military target?

Does it just not count when Hamas murders Palestinians, or how does that work?

Well, what was "Gaza's military" doing outside of Gaza committing torture, rape, infanticide and murder on 1,200 civilians?

Then she had an anchor baby. Then her parents became citizens through chain migration.

All things that Trump supporters absolutely hate and want to punish harshly: they're hollering about shooting people at the border, they're in favor of family separation, they want to round up people and deport them - except when it's Trump's own family.

For Trump supporters, "law and order" always means "rules for thee and not for me."

Well, let's see what Trump has said about that:

"We are going to win four more years. And then after that, we'll go for another four years because they spied on my campaign. We should get a redo of four years."

or how about

“I have to the right to do whatever I want as president.”

or

“A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution.”

or how about when he admired Xi Jinping:

"He's now president for life. President for life. And he's great. I think it's great. Maybe we'll give that a shot someday."