oxjox @ oxjox @lemmy.ml

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2 yr. ago

So, not "vote-buying".

OK.. the exceptionally odd part of your response is that we're commenting on a specific article speaking about this and you've linked to an entirely different web site. Do you work for the verge?

I would like to see some court cases related a requirement to be a registered voter to enter a sweepstakes.

Still, again, my point is regarding what is implied in this article which is that Musk is paying people to vote for Trump. You do agree that this is not the case, correct?

Edit: I think I get it. No one wants to hold the media accountable when they say something that enforces our existing opinions of people - even when it's verifiably untrue.

So, while it's readily apparent that Musk is not guilty of "Clearly Illegal Vote-Buying", he has established something in which any registered voter in a handful of states can "pledge their support for the First and Second Amendments" and receive financial compensation. There is in fact no requirement to vote for either Trump or Harris nor to cast a vote in this coming election.

It would seem plausible, based on the US Code quoted in the article, that it's not legal to require someone to be a registered voter to sign a petition and receive compensation. Frankly, I think people are grossly overlooking the fact that someone is paying someone to sign a petition to begin with. I would certainly hope that this is something law enforcement takes a look at.

However, the claim that Musk is paying people to vote for Trump is not at all factual. This would make this "Common Dreams" article misinformation - would it not?

You're ignoring my question.

The article, which is quoting someone on twitter, states that what he's doing is illegal because he's offering to buy votes. This is in contrast to what the petition actually states. There is no requirement for you to vote for anyone at all in order to get paid and enter a lottery. That is, unless you can direct me to something that explicitly, in writing, supports your claim.

to buy your favor and join him in voting for Trump.

Where do you see this?

I don't understand what's being implied here.

The petition states, "By signing below, I am pledging my support for the First and Second Amendments."

It says nothing about buying votes, pledging to vote for a candidate, or providing any proof that you voted at all. The only requirement is that you are registered voter in one of a handful of states.

As a registered democrat in PA, what's preventing me from signing the petition and getting some free cash? If I believe that voting for Harris is a vote to support the first and second amendments, which I fully do, what's the problem?

I would have assumed that any advertisement tagged as "political" or "election" related would be removed on November 6th as part of the contract. Who would want to spend any money to promote an event after the event takes place?

Exactly. She was avoiding direct questions and Baier was trying to keep her on track. I wish more interviewers would do this.

Q: How many illegal immigrants would you say your administration has released into the country.
A: I agree that this is an important topic.
Q: Do you have a rough estimate?
A: The point is we have a broken immigration system that needs to be repaired.
Q: (since she's not answering...) Your Homeland Security Secretary says about 6 million people.
This was just the preamble to his first question and she's already speaking from her script.
Q: When you came in to office you undid a number of Trump border policies. Do you regret this decision?
A: We tried to pass some legislation. - Baier points out the six Ds who voted against the bill and that this has nothing to do with their decision to undo what Trump had in place.

Harris is the one avoiding the questions and interrupting him.

I think this is a legit question. Had she given a legit answer and been honest with the audience, Fox News viewers, maybe she would have gained some respect. I am definitely in support of Harris but you have to look at this from the vantage point of Fox News viewers. From their perspective, she failed. I would hope that from her campaign's perspective, they see that she failed to reach the audience she was there to speak with.

usually, interviewers especially on Fox News are not interested in asking legitimately good questions, but rather asking “gotcha” questions to drum up attention.

In my experience, gotcha questions are outliers. Most of these sorts of interviews, and public debates, are composed of questions that are aligned with the viewer of that outlet. So when a politicians side steps the question asked, they're rejecting the opinions and concerns of the audience. I can't tell you how many times a "liberal" news outlet has interviewed a democratic candidate and the candidate fails to answer the question. Gotcha question or not, it pisses me off.

I disagree that the interviewer should allow the person to finish their thought. I prefer people to be direct when asked direct questions. This is not the time to speak broadly - that's what your campaign ads are for, that's what your social media is for, that's what your stump speeches are for. This is the moment to speak directly to the concerns of the outlet's audience - assuming they are in-good-faith questions.

Conservatives care about what conservatives think, as do moderates. There may be enough among them who might be swayed one way or the other depending on the dialog. The middle ground is where elections are won so what's happening in these forums is not irrelevant. Moreover (and where my mind is spending a lot of time these days), how blind are people in liberal forums to the larger premise of what they're observing and saying. People need to spend more time imagining what they're reading / hearing is being said about the other candidate. I'd this were a clip of Anderson Cooper interviewing Trump, how would liberals and conservatives react? I imagine just the mirror of what we're seeing now.

And, to be honest, I care about conservatives because they're Americans. They're my friends and neighbors and family members. They're being mislead by politicians and manipulated by corporations. The further we push each other away from each other, the more we fail to embrace our commonalities, the more likely we are to actually face a civil war. Allowing misinformation to continue like this is going to lead to nine conservative justices. "They're stupid" is not a good enough reason to write them off. The choices they make and the choices we make has an impact on the entire country now and for the foreseeable future. If you give a flying fuck about any young children in your family, you'd be a little more open to finding common ground with conservatives and calming the toxic atmosphere we're living in.

Don’t we, as people opposed to a Trump presidency, wish interviewers were more controlling over a Trump as he avoids direct questions?

I don’t know how long you’ve been around to observe political discourse but no politician ever directly answers a question. This was something I observed as a child watching presidential debates. It annoyed the heck out of me - just answer the question. Instead, they take a kernel of the question to reply with a scripted response. It’s what they’re trained to do. This is more problematic today as responses are edited and reposted on social media.

Frankly, from the few clips I’ve watched, I thought Baier did great and wish more interviewers were as competent as he.

Whether or not Harris did well is another question. I’m seeing a wide array of opinions - r/conservative, while not swing voters are also not liberal voters, claim she was destroyed. I haven’t watched enough to say.

I’m seeing a wide array of opinions here leading me to believe it was a toss up. Perhaps not an objective toss up, but one as observed by different people.

I did not watch the interview live. Hours later, Fox’s YouTube channel only had a couple segments posted. I’m going to make a wild assumption that they will only post clips that work in the conservative’s favor.

I found this comment regarding this particular clip on Reddit. I’ve edited it to turn it around to seem like a comment about a Trump interview.

She He did good in this interview. She He faced a lot of tough questions just like this one and this is the only time she he raised her his voice. And it was near the end of 30 minutes of this crap.

He constantly wouldn't let her him finish answering questions. It was more like a string of accusations backed by video "evidence" to give those accusations credence. If there is a time she he needed to force him to listen to her him, it was that question. Because she's he’s trying to reach Fox CNN viewers and not hearing her him out there might ruin her his chances of doing so.

Because Iran is also fucking with our elections and threatening the life of at least one presidential candidate. Not to mention instability in the Middle East.

No. It's not we tried being honest about it so now we have to be dicks about it. It's that someone needs to care enough about all of this to reach these people where they are. Something is broken. You don't fix this by plugging it with bubble gum and hope it works.

Why are people not compelled to change their minds when there's overwhelming evidence that he is not a good person or someone who should lead this country? What in their minds is he doing for them?

I just had a family vacation where I found out most of my family intends to vote for him. How, I don't know, but they're not aware of how horrible he was as president or as a person. They're getting fake news from social media. All they care about is "the border" and gas prices. I told them it was Trump who, for personal reasons, killed the best bipartisan immigration bill this country has ever seen and that no president has ever had substantial control over gas prices. They had nothing to say in response. I don't know if they didn't know this already or if they just didn't want to hear it (probably both). All they know is that for the years that Trump was president, their wallets were fuller. Personally, I think everyone has forgotten how much government stimulus we all received and few of us are aware of the ramifications we're still experiencing from the pandemic. My take away was that a lot of people are not as invested in politics as you or I are. The information they come across is casual. They see a headline, assume it's fact, then scroll on to the next meme.

Moreover, there needs to be honest and sincere conversations. We've all assumed the role of debater where we're unable to concede a point or allow someone to have an opinion different than our own. The facts need to be transparent. The media needs to stop tainting the evidence. Calmer discussions need to be had.

For example: We should all make note that there is an immigration issue at our southern border and that we want to minimize all illegal alien activity. We should be having open discussions about how to resolve that issue. Some people want to shut the border down but they may be unaware that that's not legal to do. Some people believe this is a Democrat operation to get more voters but they may not be aware that a lot of Latin American immigrants are super conservative. Instead of allowing The Right to own this conversation, The Left should be pummeling this issue towards the proper direction. We should be demanding more spending at the border to get more judges. We need to increase the ease of people to come into the country, not lock them out, so they're more likely to do it the right way than the illegal way. And although the Biden administration was nearly successful in this, it wasn't reported enough to break through to The Right. This is what should have been plastered all over the media, not the already known fact of Trump's mental issues.

When polls are indicating that half of the United States of America are planning to vote for - THIS GUY - I don't think minds are changing at all.

I would respectfully submit that you also are suffering from delusions.

I'm seeing an overwhelming number of headlines specifically targeting "cognitive decline". The media is banking on this thread to sway voters to not elect him.

First - "the media" (any responsible outlet, at least) should never try to sway an election.
Second - the people finding these stories aren't going to be swayed to begin with.
Third - Trump has changed News as we know it. Outlets are more motivated by clicks than reporting. Outside a small handful of exceptions, fair and unbiased reporting no longer exists.
Fourth - The "left wing media" is doing the same thing Fox News was doing ten years ago: lying and misrepresenting the facts to fit a narrative. That narrative is needed to compel their audience to subscribe to their social media and newsletters and to repost articles on these forums to generate ad revenue.

The left and the right are both in their own delusions. I agree that those on the right, certainly the far right, are more dangerous to democracy and American values. The outcome of these delusions is different but the formula and the manipulation of the public is the same. The left (which I consider myself a part of), is the frog in the slowly boiling pot.

People need to be more rational and unbiased when reading the news. People need to call out these editors for misrepresenting the facts or making claims that are guesses at best.

I agree with you. This is weird and cringy and not presidential. THIS is the guy we want as Commander in Chief? Still, I could easily see this event happen at a mayoral town hall. I could absolutely see Tim Walz doing something like this. So, from the perspective of the cult that sits before him, I could easily understand them loving this seemingly intimate moment with their false god.

From the eyes of his followers, this event was a win for Trump. That's a perspective a responsible news outlet should consider - not 'how did this look from the staunch left' but how did this look from the desperate right.

The media needs to stop reassuring us this is an easy win for Harris. Stop preaching to the choir that the man is sick in the head (we have known this for ten years). They need to inform us how serious this election is and how devoted his followers are. They should be scaring us, with truthful reporting, to show up in numbers never seen in US history.

The responsible media needs to work on reaching the clueless believers. They need to gain the trust back from the public at large. Running headlines/stories like this is strengthening the distrust of the media.

Sounds a lot like you didn’t watch the video.

Pay attention to what?? The stuff we’ve all lived through for the last five ten years??

This report is bullshit. It’s an illustration of the demise of the media and real journalism. It’s misinformation to solidify a narrative.

I know. Most people don’t care about policy - most notability DT. I understand that clicks aren’t gained through real journalism. This is exactly how we ended up with this dickhole to begin with. Every media outlet flooded their blocks with every minute story they could drum up about Trump. This left little time to cover any other alternative candidate. Everyone is obsessed with loving or hating this guy. WTF are we doing? No one is changing their mind about him at this point. How, I don’t know. How the fuck any living human could possibly consider this shitstain for anything more than a janitor is beyond me.

The point is that these stories are misleading. It doesn’t matter what you think about the person or the outlet doing the reporting. We should be more critical of the truth and the mistruths we’re being fed. Had anyone successfully made this argument in 2015, perhaps we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

If you're implying that he's breaking down and becoming human, I wouldn't go that far.

Everything you've mentioned could have been said about him over the past six years. There is nothing strange about him in this video. If anything, I found him to be quite relaxed and enjoying himself among his MAGAteers.

Did you watch the video?
No one should believe everything they read.

just played music for almost 40 minutes, scowling, smirking, and swaying onstage.

Context:
Trump called for Ava Maria to be played after a medical emergency put it on pause for about five minutes an hour into the event. He then took another question. Just a few minutes later, there was another medical emergency. Apparently it was a bit hot in the event space. It went off the rails soon after that as he called for the doors to be opened and wanting to play more music to end the event.

At one point he stops to ask if they want to do one more question. Although the crowd cheers and he says we'll do one more, he called for YMCA to be played.

Certainly an odd presidential town hall but definitely not the worst thing this guy has done and in no way did he "break down". Honestly, between the lies and threats to other humans, this might be the most human I've ever seen him. It's really sad to see how delusional these people are.

Here's the stream from PBS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-FhvhdVSZE

My favorite part was when they played James Brown's "This is a Man's World". Clearly, they haven't listened to the song LOL

Edit: Here's another story from ABC News - Trump's bizarre music session reignites questions about his mental acuity

His choice to play music is debatable. Having watched the video, it didn't seem odd to me that he made these choices. There was absolutely nothing in this town hall to indicate an issue with his mental acuity that has not already been known. He has always been an idiot. This is not news.