OpenStars @ OpenStars @piefed.social

Compassion >~ Thought

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9 mo. ago

Right - definitely a problematic solution, needing to balance both the needs of the new users as well as the community overall. Perhaps a first-time poster could have a pop-up displayed with a message such as "You don't intend to ask a question, take up people's time to answer it, and then delete it once you've met your selfish need... do you?" :-P

Perhaps another factor is how considerate people would not dream of doing so in the first place. But we are separating here the value of the user vs. the discussion that would subsequently be taking place. Admiral Patrick’s idea distinguishes between different classes of users: those most likely to contribute substantively to the Threadiverse, vs. those who are far less likely to. But it isn't the user per se that is the issue, and rather only that particular category of action (deletion after having their singular question answered, probably by a lurker or even non-Threadizen that came here specifically for purposes of getting their needs met, then they bounce) that is the problem. However, Lemmy is extremely limited in its ability or even willingness to provide a solution for the latter (the action being the problem), hence his need to do such "out of the box" thinking and approach the problem from the perspective of the former (distinguishing those users being most likely to cause the problem). PieFed seems to offer a platform to deliver a real solution to the actual problem itself... like my aforementioned idea of a pop-up box displayed to first-time posters, although hopefully much better ideas can be thought up than that. :-D

iirc, deleted comments remain in the profile of the user that wrote them. So a lot of the value lies not in "having those answers", but in placing those answers side-by-side along with the question. Which allows things like someone having the same question searching for it by keyword, and then finding the answers that they seek underneath that heading. For such to work then, we would need the actual text (& title) of the question.

But then that wraps back around to who owns the question... and shouldn't the owner be allowed to delete it, or edit it however they wish? Which makes me think: there is no system that will work in the face of malicious or at least inattentive bad actors. Perhaps social media is just a bad place to have such a question-and-answer forum, in favor of things such as wikipedia or more specialized forums (StackOverflow comes to mind).

I liked Admiral Patrick's take on it: ultimately we cannot control others, only ourselves, so he prevents brand-new accounts from being able to make posts in those communities in the first place, knowing that there is such a high likelihood that they are an attention vampire that will leave hurt feelings of frustration (and sometimes even betrayal) in the wake of their passing. But he only controls one instance, so at best it is only a test of what might work at a larger scale.

I do note that afaik PieFed's moderation abilities could automate that though (at least it should be able to? admittedly I have not tested this first-hand, only read about it long ago): e.g. it could prevent anyone with an account less than a certain age from making posts, as he does. It is one solution at least, hopefully we can dream up others as well! :-)

Excellent! It is always nice to see people asking questions - the journey towards the answer should prove most enlightening! :-D

The questions belong to the users, there is no contention about that.

However the answers belong to those who offered them, making the entire conversation belong to the community as a whole.

Unfortunately I seriously doubt that Lemmy will ever change its behavior in this regard. Keeping a post up after deletion smacks too much of Reddit behavior, and Lemmy defines itself in Reddit's shadow. :-(

Fortunately PieFed has no such limitation, so asking for a feature to help deal with this issue seems to have a very good chance of working on it. :-)

Enshittification often serves as a driver towards that behavior. However, while this platform has attempted to leave the former behind, it is not always so simple to actually accomplish that lofty goal. i.e. even if the ultimate disease is now cured, the symptoms themselves still persist, feeding forward by influencing others to continue with those old, bad habits.

Okay, created!

Yeah as Blaze said, multiple conversations spaced apart. The first one I mentioned it, the second they told me they didn't like it, either the second or perhaps now a third they actively chide me for having mentioned it.

I did not realize that a Google search pulls up lemmy.ml. Fwiw, DuckDuckGo pulls up lemmy.world instead, as its top hit. Lemmy.world at the time had 80% of all Threadiverse users on it, but Lemmy.ml has legacy, and Google's search algorithm prioritized it over lemmy.world or some other webpage, like an explanatory one.

I also did not realize that, when you click the link to go there, lemmy.ml shows only Local rather than Global results by default, to someone without an account on it.

Combined together, a non-technical normal person is going to Google "Lemmy", and to the extent they don't find the actor, will see images that mostly portray how people who own stock or even simply store money in a bank account should literally, not figuratively but literally, be killed / beheaded (/ guillotined / Luigi'd, however you want to say it). Usually within the first 2-5 pages of posts too, and especially anytime that there is any election going on in a Western nation, the bOtH sIdEs SaMe campaigns are out in full force. Lemmy is pretty extreme - you can block it all, but when you simply Google Lemmy and see lemmy.ml's Local rather than Global content, the bOtH sIdEs SaMe content is extremely prevalent.

e.g. this one that just prior to the USA elections, subtly hints that Kamala Harris might not be the best choice to vote for:

Edit: regardless of whether the evidence fully supports their 2nd-hand assertion or not, my own statement is that 100% of the people that I have tried to introduce Lemmy to irl have actively chided me for its "extreme leftist" content. Of course, Reddit is somewhat leftist itself, so I feel that it is not quite a fair comparison, but it is something to be aware of. The definition of a "Nazi bar" is that regardless of whether we ourselves are Nazis, we allow such here and that makes people uncomfortable - although in our case not totalitarian right-wing fascists but totalitarian left-wing fascists instead (who claim to be socialist, seemingly without knowing what that word means). I probably should use less inflammatory language here, but my point is that "Lemmy" makes people uncomfortable. And rightly so, as the very name itself has a history.

Since a week ago yes definitely, since yesterday I am not certain. Here is one notification that seems to go nowhere: https://piefed.social/post/995600, where the notification, received yesterday, said "Jean-Luc Plushcard New Post in tenforward@lemmy.world", yet I see that post neither in the modlog for the community (https://lemmy.world/modlog/526169) nor in the list of actual posts in it, on the original server (https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward). Even if the post changed its title, then (1) it can't be in the modlog bc the last rejection there is 7 days ago iirc, and (2) that should not change the URL link to it if it wasn't rejected. Perhaps then it was removed by the original poster? Also PieFed had that Cloudflare issue, I think it was yesterday? But I don't know if that is related.

Do you think this situation is a good one to report on?

I would argue that it is more an anti-ad against Lemmy. 😉😶

(Although I still have a Lemmy account myself, so it's more like against pinning all of our hopes for the Threadiverse onto one tankie-developed platform, made by people kicked off of Reddit for being too toxic and so deciding to create their own Reddit 2.0 - which btw super kudos to them bc that was not easy! Yet also I don't feel like pinning all of my hopes on it either. To each their own I suppose - I just dare to be different myself, wherever that may lead me.)

No - see the other response to my comment. The internet is not a welcoming place, period, and I've ceased recommending this corner of it to people. If they bother to read things then they will find what they seek. Nazi bar and all.

Though you are right, PieFed is just now turning the corner where I feel that I could ethically do so (I still see so many bugs: especially notifications that lead to nowhere, e.g. if the post gets deleted but the notification remains, and the continued lack of a Preview ability, but at the rate things are going those could both be resolved by next month! Or possibly already are in the Voyager app support?).

Thank you for your own continual efforts advocating on behalf of the Fediverse: we need you, and I for one am so glad that you tirelessly devote so much time and love towards that goal!:-)

Every single person that I've ever told about Lemmy has not only refused to join, but outright chided me for having recommended it to them. Every. Single. One.

It does not help - and I did not know myself at first - that a Google search of "Lemmy" points people to lemmy.ml, which btw to someone without an account does not show "Fediverse" content and instead rather shows exclusively Local (rather than Global). The amount of bOtH sIdEs SaMe political content is always rather extreme, especially there.

Aside from platforming political extremism, and using Arch Linux (and beans 🫛 🫘), there just isn't much else to this place. For us here, it is enough... unless we need to actually know about stuff and for that we go back to Reddit or whatever - especially niche topics that are discussed nowhere else -> if you want the content then you have to go to where it is at. The content creators refuse to come here and I don't blame them: we aren't a very welcoming bunch.

Let's see, so we covered how we are a Nazi bar, how content creators can't be arsed to bother posting here, oh yeah and there's also the fact that Lemmy is somehow more authoritian than Reddit was. There is a modlog but no modmail, no notification when your content is removed, no ability to appeal or discuss (especially when the modlog merely says that the removal was done by a "mod" - it used to say the name of the mod but then it was changed to merely say "mod", so note how Lemmy is becoming more rather than less totalitarian as time passes) or again even so much as be told that your stuff is now gone - and unlike Reddit, taking all of the conversations that happened on a post along with it (when Reddit removed a post it merely took away the link from the community, but someone with the URL could still continue to interact with it for a long time, whereas Lemmy does not even acknowledge that a post once used to exist, instead mentioning a server error and - get this - that you should try again later to access it... 🤔🥴 despite knowing full well that the post will never be un-removed; I am not suggesting that this misleading message is intentionally inaccurate, just stating once more how undemocratic this is that a mod can basically wipe out most traces that a post ever existed even in the past).

But is there a thought that making an alternative Reddit would be super easy and fun and require zero effort? Lemmy is still extremely far behind Reddit in terms of features and will take many more years to catch up, if ever, and it's hyper-authoritian nature will always remain baked directly in (plus the Nazi bar effect... it's literally right there in the very name!). Though you might check out PieFed - in terms of features it has already surpassed Reddit in many ways, though it is still early in development (e.g. most days there is no Preview ability for posts or comments - although some days there is so I suspect it is almost ready to remain rolled out as a permanent feature?), and it has some fascinating ideas about democratization of moderation. PieFed is written in Python rather than Rust and so features come out in days to months rather than years. PieFed still shows posts from Lemmy.ml, but unlike lemmy.ml itself, does not do so exclusively, so offers a far more global and democratic platform. I'm placing my hopes in PieFed rather than the dying Lemmy moving forward. I usually get downvoted for saying all this... yet here we are on a post saying how MAUs for Lemmy are decreasing and calling into question whether Lemmy will even survive or not - while btw those numbers for PieFed recently tripled in size - so history has and will continue to prove this point accurate. There is hope for the Fediverse, not specifically for Lemmy I think (there is just too much wrong there and the efforts continue to move in the opposite direction, more towards rather than away from authoritarian control, which trends towards fewer rather than more content, i.e. it intentionally creates "echo chambers"), but for the wider Fediverse, yes. It will take actual effort to build it up though. Each step moves towards that - e.g. apps such as Voyager, Thunder, and Interstellar helped Lemmy (& the latter Mbin) thrive, and now all of those are adding support for PieFed, thus ensuring that none of the previous efforts were wasted, even as they move forward into the future rather than remain stagnant in the past.

But there are reasons why people don't like coming here - and those still need to be solved. First among them is that the tools have to get better, which is happening. Second, start posting content, and make it fun to spend time here. I see people doing that constantly, making my time here enjoyable.:-) Third, maybe more will be needed beyond those two steps but I don't know anything about that, so I just focus on the former two steps and leave the rest to the future:-).

Came here looking for this reply and was not disappointed 😉🫠

Yeah phase 1 is optional, some of us only wish that we were that sophistumicashiated as all that!

Point: facts

Counterpoint: memes

😁🫠

PieFed, apparently:-)

"No watch, only pick"

If the owner of a house dies, can't the vampire enter then, bc it's no longer a "home" or whatever?

Something something by my bootstraps...

Or vice versa, according to Blade.