Melbourne Symphony Orchestra cancels pianist’s performance after dedication to journalists killed in Gaza
Yeah, it totally is. That's what I mean. You don't see like an animal pictures community where the mods are like "NO MORE FOXES that is the rule" and the users get all confused like "but... bro half the pictures are porcupines, can we do something about that, no one thinks it's too many foxes and anyway we like fox pictures" and the mods say "like all of you I am concerned and fearful to think sometimes that I might be in a community with too many porcupines, but I can assure you that it's not true" or anything like that.
My analogy is very bad but hopefully the point comes across
These are the same bots that have inflamed for real real-world riots in the UK right now, and in my opinion probably had quite a bit to do with getting Trump elected the first time around. I know people IRL who have their whole worldview formed by what these bots want them to believe. I'm not sure how big a real world problem it actually is on any given platform, but in the aggregate, it's a fuckin HUGE problem IMO.
Yeah. Which users are the bad users is generally blatantly obvious, I feel like.
It is wild to me that there's such a consensus among the "normal users" about certain things (MBFC bot is bad, the shills are a problem, which users are the shills), and such an opposite consensus among the mods. IDK where even this "mod versus user" mentality came from (on both sides, honestly -- part of the reason I try not to complain about moderation is, WTF, they're all volunteers doing an important job and it's impossible for any human to be perfectly patient and evenhanded when dealing with the tide of nonsense they put up with in order to create a good space for conversation.) But it is still very weird to me that there's a visible "mod viewpoint" and "community participant viewpoint" and that they are different from each other.
Well... yeah, that's a fair point. The strength of Israel's lobby has a ton to do with it (and lobbies like China can accomplish the same types of things). It's 100% true.
The weird thing is, it is. These guys who want to knock out the pillars of democracy and sell them as scrap like a bunch of methheads taking apart the load bearing structure of their own parking garage, never set up shop in one of the "after" republics like Russia or wherever. They always wanna come to our places so they be reaping the tasty profitable stable fruits of the democracy they're dismantling.
I think the assertion was that I was following around particular users and posting hostile comments... which, I was doing the second thing, not the first. Here's a relevant exchange that deals with the removal more directly (from this thread during the same unit of moderation action):
Wind dat same shit I always post in these threads back selecta!
If you’re reading this and you don’t want to vote for biden or trump, consider party for socialism and liberation. They’re running Claudia de la Cruz for president this year on a platform of Palestinian statehood and ending arms shipments to Israel.
It’s okay to not want to vote for Biden or trump.
Hey let’s talk about how Biden shut down Trump’s insulin price cap
You already explained to me how that happened, I know, but explain it again for the rest of the classHow come you stopped replying to me in the thread where we were talking about that?
Why are you dragging that into this thread? Why did you drag it into that thread (I’m pretty sure it was off topic drama there too)?
Because you were talking nonsense… I’m not obligated to keep talking to you indefinitely about why water is wet and world is round
Go on, tell ‘em what you told me. I’ll let you figure out why it might be relevant to this conversation. Oh also how Trump’s a formidable stage presence and Biden should be worried about having to go head to head with him in a debate. But let’s start with Biden shutting down the insulin price cap. The people need to know! If they are thinking of voting Biden when he wants their insulin prices un-capped.Please stop stalking me. Thanks.
Stop stalking political threads and posting propaganda. I’m not going out of my way to find you, but since I saw a post of yours, I thought it was relevant to throw it in there that you have in the past posted explicit propaganda of a type so dishonest that anyone here will be able to see through it. Why would that not be relevant to what you’re saying now?
If you mean me tagging you when I used you as an example of a person posting propaganda, I can stay away from that in the future if you want. I was meaning to do it so you could defend yourself if you wanted to try, but I’m fine with not doing that if you prefer. If you’re just ordering me not to point out your propaganda when I happen to see it, then no, I think I will continue.
Removed ("stalking") and permaban. I reached out to the mod and said hey I can see I was being a dick (it happens sometimes), but I wasn't stalking and what's up with this permaban. No response.
Just as a random additional data point, here's a post of mine that was also removed from the same threads:
Let's say this:
I have no idea if you are a shill or a genuine person. But, there are some behaviors that are bad things to do regardless of which you are:
Recasting your opponents' views as other ones that make less sense and are easier to argue against, consistently, as a way of muddling the discourse, instead of being honest about what you're saying and what you are disagreeing with and why, and just letting your point of view speak for itself whether or not I personally would agree with itConsistently posting a drumbeat of memes in support of your viewpoint (within that same dishonest framing)
I mean, you can do what you want to do. I'm not gonna try to tell you you are or aren't allowed to say whatever suits you. But to me, saying "fuck the whole US politics join my coalition for positive change we need a level of change that the current system will not allow" would make sense. Sounds great. I actually would be right there in that coalition. Anything from Bernie Sanders to Ralph Nader to someone further out-there who is working for something to produce actual change in some other way.
But if instead of that, you misrepresent the "other side"'s viewpoint "fascism is so bad that we need to resist it even if the alternative involves continuing the US's longstanding policy of allowing some war crimes," as if it was "I <3 war crimes and genocide", and post a drumbeat of attack against specifically the least war-crime-friendly big contingent in US politics, I think people will wind up accusing you of bad faith. They've got a right to say that too.
I mean, does that seem fair? If you were posting a big stream of memes about how to put pressure on Biden to do more (like, a fuck of a lot more) to stop the crimes, or in favor of some faction that was plausibly able to produce a better outcome, I don't think you would be getting near this level of derisive responses. But the message you're sending doesn't match the outcome you say you want. I think that's why you are getting these maybe unfair accusations.
Removed, civility
Dude I would fuckin LOVE to. Spending extensive time whining about moderation decisions is rarely productive, but I was definitely a little salty about it and I'm happy to discuss. Disclaimer; I'm aware that I was being a cockhead at certain points during the thread, which certainly factored into the decision, but also some of my perfectly reasonable comments were being deleted and a lot of people who were way more (and are way more consistently) cockheads didn't earn a permaban for it. It remains sort of a curious moderation decision to me.
Here's the thread. There was quite a lot of discussion in it about the presence of shills clearly distorting the discussion. I'll reproduce some of the threads including restored versions of comments that were deleted by mods (you can verify all of this on the modlog.)
I'll indicate deleted comments with a strikethrough.
OP: These framings we see in the media have absolutely nothing to do with which candidate is more qualified to run the country
Me: Actually I would add to that that these framings are specifically inserted into the discourse by corporate media to elevate some candidates and depress some candidates, with the depressingly effective aim of making people dislike the corporate unfriendly candidates
Posters ITT: Hey like 20 or 30 of us have the exact same new framing we’d like to present that has nothing to do with which candidate is more qualified to run the country. It might be a much much better framing than, which candidate is better to vote for, or factual things about the candidate’s record. We all feel that exact same way about it being important to look at it this way.
You can have the best product in the universe, but if you can’t sell it, then it doesn’t matter. When trying to argue a douche is better than a turd, you really need your presentation going. None of the American politicians (except maybe Bernie) are remotely qualified to run a country of any size, so stop trying to make it about who is the most qualified.
Aw man
I tried to set you up to say something like, yeah but what has Biden even done other than “not Trump” (as if that “doesn’t count” somehow as a reason to pick him instead of Trump), but you didn’t take the bait. You just came out with conflating “which product is best marketed” with “which is the product we actually want”, and somehow came down on the side of best-marketed. Idk what that’s about. And then you simply said that no one is qualified.
Idk, that’s a little bit close to teeing up what I wanted to say (talking about Biden’s qualification), so I’ll go ahead and put it up anyway.
40% reduction in CO2 emissions by 203015% minimum corporate taxActual labor people in charge of the NLRB for the first time in God knows how long leading to all these union winsHundreds of billions of dollars in student loan forgivenessBig wage gains at the bottom end of the scale even when adjusted for massive historic inflation
That’s a partial sampling. And that was with a pretty hostile congress and Supreme Court; most of it was watered down versions after he tried to do more aggressive stuff.
That's a weird removal, no? Reason given was "stalking."
I'll have to reply to myself to talk more about the stalking; I'm meeting the character limit. Ask me if I'm still salty about these events. 🙂
I was permabanned from !politicalmemes@lemmy.world for pointing out (quite rudely, tbf) that some of the accounts had been recycling transparently laughable propaganda. E.g. they had said elsewhere that they were upset that Biden had undone Trump's insulin price cap, and now they were showing up trotting out some somewhat more subtle talking points (you know the ones...)
Because once that door swings open a little bit... who knows what might bear some scrutiny?
Who made the clothes you're wearing? Or your phone? Were they a slave? A child? Are they even still alive, or do they have cancer because of the factory where they worked? Do their parents miss them, if they're gone?
What happened to make the chicken sandwich you had at lunch? Are you complicit in slow torture unto death, just by existing in the modern world?
Better to keep the door shut tight, and attack the messenger if anyone has anything to say about it. We're just making music here. No torture, no killing, no profit from the destruction of lives. Just music! Trust me. Enjoy.
(I don't think most people are like this. I actually think most people in the West at this point are against the "war" in Gaza, to at least some tepidly inactive degree. But certainly, also, a lot of people aren't against it, q.v. this article.)
Someone else had one, it was great, Facebook bought it, and then they (to their credit) made it available for free to everyone for quite a while, and now they've decided you know what maybe we can have a little disinformation and it's okay, you guys understand, right?
I feel like a lot of these people are unprepared for the civil war they claim to want
When you live your whole life in a cushy environment with more competent people than you making sure that the lights stay on and the food keeps coming, it’s easy to have this weird fantasy that you are God’s chosen person and you can wander around believing and doing whatever you want. Just looking at this woman’s face, though, I feel like she would be the first to abandon her convictions and say yes judge I’ll do whatever you want once the cell door swings closed for real. Maybe I am wrong but that is the feeling I get from looking at her.
Does Donald Trump understand how
Imma stop you right there
Needs to be the GIF of him going down a hallway switching from holding his rifle right-handed to left-handed when he changes his pointing direction
Yeah, it’s going to be tough. It looks like they’re using custom software for it, which means basically the most realistic path to get there would be to toss the site and switch to something like Wordpress which I am guessing they don’t want to do.
A lot of the best communities to be in have a barrier to entry
The community of pilots, the people who work in medicine or on floor X, the people who are proud of what they can accomplish and recognize automatically that the value of the interactions they have are not worthless.
Idk how you bring that to the online space. But it is missing, yes. I like this essay.
What is the site?
"Okay, so we're gonna take aggressive moderation action against misinformation in the political subs"
"Sounds fuckin fantastic"
"By checking the sources of stories and adding MBFC bot"
"Er... that sounds less fuckin fantastic. I mean it sounds fine, sort of, but I think you have a misinformation problem that's a little different from that misinformation problem."
"Oh hey -- here's a story from the Washington Examiner. Enjoy!"
They don't want to touch you, or to depend on your qualifications in order to fulfill the task
Putting the change on the counter leaves 0 chance that you'll fuck up the process for them, in any way
Deleted
Republicans can't replace their old man nominee, so they're pretending JD Vance is the GOP candidate
Jump
It’s okay, their husbands and fathers will be telling them how to vote anyway.
“Hey don’t a significant number of the children of your movement’s participants not speak to them anymore?”
Irrelevant
Because everyone knows who is killing journalists in Gaza