modeler @ modeler @lemmy.world

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2 yr. ago

Is UPF food with ultra high fibre bad?

I don't know.

My thoughts are that your total daily intake is more important than considering any single food item. As such, having some UPF in your diet is ok. The problem becomes epidemiologically measurable when, like the UK and US, 60% of calories consumed by some demographics are from UPF food.

And there are almost certainly multiple different things 'wrong' with UPF and so if you fix one problem, you may still be at risk from another. For example in your question, there are a lot of studies showing the importance of fibre in the diet, including those that add bran to whatever the person normally eats. So UPF with lots of fibre, all things equal, is likely less bad than UPF without.

Is UPF with ultra high vitamin A bad?

Fat soluble vitamins (A, D, E and K) are interesting in that they don't show benefits above RDA, and in high doses cause a long list of nasty symptoms. In particular, vitamin A in excess is correlated with increased risk of multiple major diseases and even death.

Scientists only use terms like ultra processed food after defining them in their scientific papers. The problem here is that the media find it difficult to write a short article for the general audience if they have to define things scientifically.

What specifically is bad about UPF foods is still being researched. A few leading ideas are:

• Very little fibre
• Starches are all immediately accessible to digestion and so blood glucose spikes much more than for the non-UPF equivalent
• UPF foods are soft and dry (so weigh less) making it very easy to eat a lot very fast, so you eat too many calories.
• Relatively high in salt and sugar
• Use of emulsifiers. These may change your gut microbiota and also make your gut more leaky causing inflammation
• Use of preservatives and artificial colours
• Frequently have a lot of oil

Low fibre, emulsifiers and preservatives, while lacking variety of phytochemicals found in fresh food is known to change your gut health. People on UPF diets tend to eat more and have higher blood glucose spikes leading to heart disease and diabetes.

Altogether this is a recipe for a shorter, less healthy life

This is the correct answer.

Another way to distinguish the good from the bad: Good bread goes stale in a few days, it also is harder to chew. UPF bread will sit in your breadbin for 7 days without noticeable changes and is fluffy and relatively light.

The reason for the fluffiness and the shelf life is all the chemical additives.

You can see why the corporations love UPF bread - and why (if you didn't know the health impact) you might want to buy UPF bread on your weekly shop.

What are you talking about, the victims weren't white?

/s

Ah yes, but you forgot when, during the campaign, Trump said "Fake news! I don't know anything about Project 2025" which then allowed all the press to ignore it.

This changes everything life hack: Whenever you're caught in a lie, just say "fake news" and go on as if nothing has happened. Works for rape, bribery, theft, corruption and some say even murder.

I'm hoping for a draw. After 12 brutal rounds.

Almost every survey will get 6-10% of people answering yes to the most extreme or batshit crazy option, no matter what.

Probably the main reason is that people are pissed off that they are being approached by survey takers and punish the survey for revenge.

And there are some batshit crazy people out there.

It seems you misunderstand the goal of goverment.

This is your opinion of what you want governments to be, not what they actually are.

What is the point of not researching and having bigger budget, if it can't buy thing that did not get created?

What a lot of negatives and hypotheticals. All solved by getting a return on investment and having that money to do more things with, including research.

And then on goverment level there is no such thing as copyright or patent.

I'd like to introduce you to the World Intellectual Property Organisation (WIPO) which is an intergovernmental organisation that does precisely what you say doesn't exist.

They STILL need to put in money to create their own product.

Sure, but the cost to duplicate the product is tiny compared to researching, developing then creating a production run for it. And this fake normally severely impacts the profits for the inventor.

But now we're just repeating the same arguments.

You appear to want to completely burn down a system you don't understand because of some examples of misuse. For example, as there are slumlords, should we make all property free? Or should we solve the underlying problem (of massive capital flows to the rich?)

You also have no idea how to read and understand a patent. The way they are written is horrendously verbose and highly confusing, but so are medical research papers or legal case summaries, and for the similar reasons: these are highly technical documents that have to follow common law (i.e. a long history of legal decisions taken in IP disputes).

The real problem in the US IMHO has been the constant defunding of the patent office that has allowed a large number of very poor patents to be filed. The problems you are screaming about largely go to that root cause.

But don't throw the baby out with the bath water - you have no idea how bad that would be for everybody but the mega corporations.

Manufacturing lines are built all that time for unpatented products,

And cheaply, because the research and productisation has been done by somebody else - this is an argument for patents

plus a competitor can't just "take all of that work and investment", they will need to put in money to create their own product,

Not true. One major issue is that many competitors literally copy the product exactly. Fake products wreck the original company

even if it's a copy they still need to make it work,

That is 100x easier when you have a working product to clone

They'll be second to market, and presumably need to undercut price to get market share... This is a very risky endeavour, unless the profit margins are huge, and in which case, good thing that there's no patents...

The point is exactly that the fake product undercuts the original by a huge amount (they had no investment to pay off).

If the research is so costly and complex (pharmaceutical, aeronautical,...), then it should be at least partly funded by the government, through partnerships between universities and companies.

I agree that the government model makes sense for a lot of areas and products. But note that a government won't invest millions or billions in developing a product if another country immediately fakes the product and prevents the government from collecting back the taxes it spent on the research.

As I discuss above there are lots of criticisms to the current IP laws - adjustment is 1000x better than abolishing a system that has driven research and development for several hundred years

All evidence points to the opposite of your conclusion.

In places where IP laws are weak or non-existent, very little fundamental or expensive research is done by companies - because the result is immediately cloned by 100 competitors. In medicine, companies will not research and develop new drugs to market unless they can get a return on the investment. Even in places with strong IP laws, development of drugs that can't produce a return in the limited monopoly window is simply not done (eg with a small number of patients or when 1 course of a drug will permanently cure the patient), so many diseases do not have treatments.

In countries where there is strong IP laws, innovation jumps because innovating creates new things that people/companies can sell for profit. A personal area of interest is development of small-arms - every single advance from muskets to modern weapons is documented in patents in the US and Europe; the rate of innovation in the 19th and 20th centuries was incredible - and that is via patents and profit in the free market.

Now, we can have a productive argument about state sponsored research - but unless the state undertakes all research in an economy (which would be staggering overreach), we need IP laws.

We can also discuss patents on software (which IMHO are not needed because companies do fundamental research without patent laws like in the UK).

We can also discuss what is the appropriate time that copyright should remain - the Disney law in the US is a ridiculous overreach. It was 25 years or until the death of the author/artist - that worked very well for centuries.

You don’t need government promises of monopoly rights to create innovation in the marketplace, competition drives innovation.

It's a corollary of the other famous expression that science advances one funeral at a time. This came from Max Planck and predates Clarke:

A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it ...

An important scientific innovation rarely makes its way by gradually winning over and converting its opponents: it rarely happens that Saul becomes Paul. What does happen is that its opponents gradually die out, and that the growing generation is familiarized with the ideas from the beginning: another instance of the fact that the future lies with the youth.

Max Planck, Scientific autobiography, 1950, p. 33, 97

Here's one that I enjoyed and covers a critical period of modern East Asian history: "The Gate" by François Bizot.

It's him recounting how he travelled to Cambodia and was captured by the Khmer Rouge. He survived ... just ... By forming a relationship with Comrade Duch who

as the Chairman of Tuol Sleng (S-21) prison camp, and head of the Santebal, Kang Kek Iew was responsible for the interrogation and torture of thousands of individuals, and was convicted for the execution of at least 12,272 individuals, including women and children [Wikipedia]

While he covers the history of the Khmer Rouge period, his writing is highly empathic and discusses the suffering of himself and hundreds of thousands of ordinary citizens at the hands of other ordinary citizens and how could this possibly happen. It's a highly emotional book.

Best of luck with your reading!

No toilet rules me - my alone time is ungovernable!

But the last thing I need is a spring loaded giant fish, especially in my toilet.

Yes!

But the covid situation is way worse than you think. The government stimulus was really helpful to the poor and middle class, but they spent all that money.

And who profited from that? The asset owners. Covid stimulus essentially was a direct transfer from the government to company owners and house rentals. These rich guys then used it to buy other assets such as more houses, equities and businesses. That's why the stock market went up - your money went straight into it.

That is a very profound point you've just made - it made me think.

While I think you're 99% correct, I think there is a serious counterpoint to:

A difference in beliefs ... can be addressed through the inspection and sharing of evidence

This can only be true if both hold values that make logic/reason matter more than emotion or nihilism/postmodernism.

Some people have fallen into the trap of emotionally rejecting other people's arguments and denying what are self-evident facts (if you accept realism is basically true). By denying a shared reality, it is near impossible to jointly reason in the space of beliefs about reality.

Sadly this is important because the right has spent about 40 years denying basic truths (like trickle-down economics doesn't work and children dressed as cats have litter-boxes in liberal schools). In the last 10 years or so they have developed a complete alternate reality on the Internet, and the single most important facts in this reality are that mainstream media is lying, there is a giant conspiracy controlling the governments and science and that the best way to find the truth is to do your own research.

Yeah, but let's consider what happens:

• Tariff applied
• Prices go up
• Supermarket trolleyfull becomes more expensive
• People have less money to buy other things
• Companies sell less
• Company profits fall
• Stock valuation drops
• GDP falls

That's why the Dow Jones and S&P are lower - this shrinks company profits and US GDP.

The EU and US standards are very different and products for one can't necessarily be shipped to the other and vice versa. Examples for food include massive differences for colourings, preservatives and the like. Europe will not accept chicken washed in chlorinated water or bright froot loops. Health traffic lights are also going to be different.

While it's possible to have 2 production lines, 1 for each economic zone, that's expensive for producers and shippers.

A full renegotiation of the US Canada trade border would be chaos

But that is precisely what Trump is demanding now. Even though he tore up NAFTA and renegotiated the deal in his first presidency (I am sure I remember him saying it was the greatest trade deal ever signed and the greatest win for TrumpAmerica).

They don't need to join it as a full member to have trade and economic benefits. Simple (!) alignment with standards and regulations will allow free access to the market and free movement of people.