mo_ztt ✅ @ mo_ztt @lemmy.world

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40

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673

Joined

2 yr. ago

Wait. So you're evaluating the theory that powerful people in the US government killed a woman, faked two (...) suicide notes for her, successfully coerced her lawyer into not divulging her client list (which he has, and desperately wants to divulge), and put down the memory hole all the original news stories that talked about her being afraid she'd be killed for threatening her clients with exposure... but the fly in the whole ointment of the theory is that they'd have to find someone who could write similar to how she writes?

Honestly, I think I'm probably misremembering, and I'm mixing her up with some other person that powerful people actually did have killed. Not because the note was handwritten; I just think there would be places on the internet that were pretty readily findable where would be published the original stories I read back at the time.

I wasn't trying to get into all of this, tbh, because like I say I'm just sort of talking and have no idea. I was just relaying my (maybe faulty) memories and letting people be their own judge.

Edit: Oh fuck, the plot thickens. I found what I was thinking of. According to randos on Reddit, she explicitly talked about not having any plans to kill herself on an episode of Alex Jones which is no longer easily available. Make of that what you will 😃.

Yes, I read the sources I linked to. Here's what I said about it:

But now, all I can find is that it was clearly a suicide. Oh well.

What did you think I was talking about, what I said that? If not that the stories I can find now all say it was a legit suicide?

Maybe my memory is faulty, or maybe the suicide note is fake. Which it is, I have no idea.

More accurately, someone who doesn't want other hungry people (in addition to herself) to have any food because she wants better food.

What, to you, would be not "miniscule"? I linked a source listing concrete things he's done in more detail than I really want to retype out here.

Yeah. Sanders was the most popular politician in America for years after the election. Don't get me started about it lol. If the argument is "we need someone who's a realistic candidate in the general election," they had that on a silver platter, and they stabbed him in the back and threw him in the trash.

If the party elite are blocking meaningful representation within, that’s a problem.

It is, in fact, a massive problem. Let's keep all the candidates down who people actually like, because the stuff everyone likes tends to be not the favorite thing of all our rich friends. Oh no! Why are we unpopular. Don't people know we're better than the Republicans?

Fuckin assholes. I mean, they are better than the Republicans, but ass cancer is better than the Republicans.

Nope, my argument is the reverse of that. I'm saying we should vote for Biden if the only other possible outcome is Trump.

Deborah Jeane Palfrey has entered the chat. I swear I remember seeing news stories at the time saying that she'd specifically told family members: I'm not planning to kill myself, but I am threatening to release the identities of powerful men who made use of my services. If I die it's because they killed me.

But now, all I can find is that it was clearly a suicide. Oh well.

Edit: Someone argued with me enough about it that I actually tried to read up on it, and I think what I was remembering was that Alex Jones said that if she died it's because they killed her, and some people reported on that, along with some carefully cherry-picked quotes from her interview on his show. She did say that she wasn't planning to kill herself, but only because he directly asked her as part of his normal Alex Jones shtick, and of course she said "no." But she never said that on any other program, as far as I can tell, and everyone reliable who investigated concluded that the suicide was probably real. So the mystery is resolved. Sounds like she killed herself. 😢 At least I learned something today.

I'm not surprised it was ordered to be unsealed. I'll be more than a little surprised if an accurate list is actually unsealed. But, anything's possible I guess.

Trump is clearly planning to greatly harm Central and Southern Americans in the US

And Palestinians (he was the one that moved the embassy to Jerusalem, remember)

And US journalists who report on corruption in Saudi Arabia

And Ukrainians

And anyone in government who won't support his crimes

And ordinary-person election workers who won't support his crimes

And via his supporters, literally anyone in or out of government who actively opposes his crimes, with a pretty broad definition of "opposes"

And women who have medical problems during a pregnancy

And I'm sure lots of other people who don't spring to mind right at the moment. But surely that should be enough of a list. 2 Gaza-size genocides as the final outcome of a second Trump term would mean we got very very lucky.

He’s polling neck and neck with Trump

Yeah. Which is nuts when you think about it.

Who would you push for instead of Biden?

The Democrats have a pretty good process going of pushing out any non-pro-establishment candidates, which leaves the field pretty much full of wet towels. Biden is above the average by quite a bit among the wet towels, in my opinion. Who do you see who could replace him? I'm genuinely asking.

Yeah. The consequences we're seeing for pregnant women now, all the people who died of COVID who didn't need to, and all those little Hispanic kids, all add up to absolutely nothing compared with what he wants to do in a second term.

What's your percentage definition of "quite low"?

I mean, I do kind of agree with you. Biden's old and a sort of "acceptable centrist" candidate. I miss Bernie. I'm still voting for Biden, because Trump is the end of the goddamned world.

Yes, and Biden is still running those concentration camps!

Do you think I’m selfish enough to vote for genocide just because Biden’s genocide doesn’t target people like me?

I think you're being incredibly selfish. I was friends with a guy who, if the timing had been different, could have literally been one of those kids in cages on the southern border. In addition to support for all kinds of anti-Islamic, anti-queer, and anti-immigrant policies which produced real harm in the real world, Trump started the family separation policy. Biden ended it, and on February 2nd 2021 he created a task force to try to find children who'd been separated from their parents and reunite them. Are you really trying to say that because ICE is still operating and still runs detention centers, "nothing fundamentally changed"?

I will not vote for genocide. This is not some radical stance, it’s the bare fucking minimum. And you know what? My hope is, by pressuring Biden’s campaign on this issue, Biden could reconsider his stance on Gaza to get reelected. That’s how politics works!

Yeah, I get this. I'm not trying to say that Biden should get a free pass on anything he wants to do. I'm saying there's a concerted propaganda effort afoot at the moment to try to come up with reasons for people not to vote for Biden, when Trump is the end of the fuckin' world. It's like if your house is burning down and you're running around trying to save the artwork instead of the children.

Are you genuinely trying to work for justice with all these things you're saying? Or just making a theatrical stand for the people in Gaza who've been dying by the thousands all through the Obama, Trump, and Biden administrations, while nothing fundamentally changed? (edit: ... while ignoring the cost side of the equation of what you're saying, in the real world, for every single other marginalized or vulnerable person who isn't in Gaza?)

Why the fuck not?

Are you under the impression that Trump doesn't support this type of genocide in a much bigger way than Biden? Or that it's uncertain whether life will be better for you under Biden than under a second Trump term? If so, I think we've hit the root of our disagreement.

Trump already ran concentration camps within the United States during his first term, and he's already pledged to root out the communists, Marxists, fascists, and the radical left thugs that live like vermin within the confines of our country.

That's you. He means you. And he's literally dead serious about it, and he and his cohort have a detailed plan for how to get it done. I'm not by any means saying that you should vote for Biden only for your own safety as some sort of selfish gesture and betray all these people who would somehow be safer under Trump. I'm saying that not voting for Biden endangers quite a lot of people's safety, inside and outside the US, but yes, also very specifically yours.

Voting is a chess move, not a love letter.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I feel like people from countries where they just recently got free elections can explain this better. I see all this conversation (entitlement? propaganda? cluelessness? The OP article is definitely in the "propaganda" category) from people who are talking about how not liking something Biden did, translates into deciding not to vote for Biden. To someone coming from some situation where voting is connected to your survival and safety, as opposed to the modern-day US where it's more like a fashion statement, that seems like just pure careless idiocy.

And, as far as the 2024 election, it is connected to your survival. Usually in the US it's not. This time it is.

Ah yes, all those people who will be safer under a Trump presidency. I forgot about them. How careless of me.

Lol. Give us policy.

Of all the Democratic politicians you could raise this complaint about pretty legitimately, Biden's not one. This is a pretty good overview of the substantive things he's done. Obama did a better job of branding his accomplishments, but Biden hasn't been just fucking off doing nothing.

I don’t care if you think not voting for Biden is voting for facism.

I don't care if you don't care. Not voting for Biden is making it more likely that Trump wins, which is, quite literally, fascism. That remains true even if you don't like it.

Voting for Biden is a vote for right of center neoliberal politicians who takes legal bribes from corporations.

Accurate yes. It's a goddamned shame, I 100% agree. Letting democracy collapse in the US completely won't help though. Right? On that we can agree? Maybe not.

Yes, I do understand your argument. You don't need to repeat it. I'm saying that advancing that argument is actively hostile to your own individual safety.

I know two separate people whose life situations changed dramatically because of Obama-era immigration policies. If they were hostile to Obama because of drone strikes and warrantless wiretapping, I'd point out to them that yes, fair enough, but they could also be deported right now from a Bush or Romney America if things had gone a little differently. And Trump is much, much worse than Bush or Romney. He's dangerous to people who aren't even queer or communist.

I think you're being similarly foolish and contrarian about it. But of course you're free to think whatever you want, I won't keep going back and forth with you about it.

This is honestly pretty funny. IDK if you're trolling with your other messages or not but this one is funny.