maplebar @ maplebar @lemmy.world

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5

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230

Joined

9 mo. ago

Genuine question: do you repeat the same copy-pasted propaganda so much that you can't remember having this exact same psedo-historical conversation a few days ago?

You may have infinite energy to repeat the same thing over and over again, but I'm not going to bother with it. Refer to my last correction of the historical record.

Scenario 3, hostages freed as part of ceasefire deal: fighting stops, hostages freed.

You wouldn't think it was acceptable that "the hostages remain hostages" if they were people you cared about. Do you not see the fucking difference?

The scenario that will ultimately win is Scenario 1, the hostages will not be released and the war will continue. It'll only get worse when Trump gets into office, so sit back and enjoy existing in the calm before the storm.

Now who's putting words in other people's mouths? 😂

If you had a leg to stand on in this discussion you wouldn't resort to pathetic non sequitur.

Hamas was [supposedly] the legitimately elected government of the Gaza Strip. To think that they could go on a murderous rampage (in which they killed more people in a single day than the Israelis have in any day since then, by the way), take hostages back into Gaza, hide behind innocent women and children like the worthless pathetic Islamist terrorist cowards that they are, and not face the direct consequences of their actions, is a joke.

I guess when you worship a pedophile who spread his ideology through violent genocide (including in historical Gaza), logic and consequence isn't your strong point.

Still, I don't understand why you are so dramatically opposed to the idea of releasing the hostages? What's in it for you that these people are needlessly tortured? Do you think it helps offset the harm against the innocent Gazans?

It's cynical and frankly fucking disgusting that you view human lives as nothing more than numbers.

Is this just numbers to you? Is that how you quantify the value of human life?

If so, you are beyond help and reasoning.

Nothing can be done for the thousands of people on both sides of this conflict who have been tragically killed in a pointless war, but that does no mean that the people who can be saved right now, today, shouldn't be. I want the immediate release of the hostages, because 1 innocent person taken hostage and tortured for months in an injustice to people everywhere. I want a ceasefire because 1 innocent person killed in a pointless holy war is an injustice to people everywhere.

The real question, and the one to which I can only guess your disgusting answer, is why you don't...

Return the bodies then.

Frankly I hope that they are dead, because the idea of living in a dungeon under Gaza being raped and tortured every day for 13 months is horrific.

And if Hamas has lost track of even the hostages bodies then I don't envy them, because it seems that they've lost what little bargaining position they once had. Uh oh for them.

Well in that case I guess you'll be glad to know that a one-state solution seems to be on the horizon--where Israel is the one state that controls the region.

Not my preference, but I don't make the rules.

I'm not putting words in your mouth...

The US's stated reason for rejecting the [toothless, unenforceable, bureaucratic, performative] UN ceasefire proposal was that it did not call for the "immediate release of Israeli hostages from Gaza".

To that end, you said that they "can’t even bother to do the right thing when it doesn’t even matter anymore", which to me very clearly shows that you believe that it is wrong (or, not right) to reject an agreement that fails to call for the immediate release of the hostages.

In my view, the right thing to do is very, very simple--as simple as it has been for over 13 months: agree to a ceasefire in exchange for the immediate release of all Israeli hostages in Gaza (dead or alive). A unilateral ceasefire that doesn't guarantee the immediate return of hostages doesn't make any sense to me, how about you?

It was also "collective punishment" for Hamas to go on a rampage on October 6th, 2023, raping, murdering and kidnapping innocent Israeli civilians, including men, women, children and seniors. Some of these hostages, if they are even still alive, have been held in what kind of horrific conditions for more than a year... Kept in a dungeon, repeatedly tortured, never having seen the light of day for over a fucking year... Something tells me you wouldn't be so quick to agree to a unilateral ceasefire if someone you loved was held captive for 13 months, now would you?

The US was right to reject this performative political UN bullshit.

There is no "justice" in any circumstances in which the hostages are not immediately returned.

Then, reach a deal for the hostages, like the ones Netanyahu has repeatedly shot down.

So you're literally just confirming this:

So in your imagination Israel unilaterally stops fighting against Hamas while (a) Hamas continues to hold civilians hostage, doing all manners of physical and psychological torture to people who only happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and (b) Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and tribal gangs continue to wage attacks against Israel? And then (and only then), Israel comes back to the negotiating table with Hamas once again for yet another round of negotiations to try to free the hostages, only for Hamas to decide to move the goalposts?

You must have read "Art of the Deal".

sort the hostages after.

"Sort" the hostages "after" what?

So in your imagination Israel unilaterally stops fighting against Hamas while (a) Hamas continues to hold civilians hostage, doing all manners of physical and psychological torture to people who only happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and (b) Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and tribal gangs continue to wage attacks against Israel? And then (and only then), Israel comes back to the negotiating table with Hamas once again for yet another round of negotiations to try to free the hostages, only for Hamas to decide to move the goalposts?

Is this really the type of illogical nonsense people here believe in?

No wonder this shit has been going on for decades... Y'all have lost your damn minds if you think that the world works this way.

Is it so wrong to demand the immediate release of Israeli hostages in Gaza in exchange for an immediate ceasefire?

That seems like a reasonable agreement to me. The innocent people of Gaza have derived absolutely no benefit from having Israeli civilians being taken captive, maimed, raped and tortured for over 13 months. Release the damn hostages and end the bloodshed.

Didn't you hear? Gaza is SAVED now! YAY! 🤡

Let's revisit this conversation in 1 year, shall we?