knightly the Sneptaur @ knightly @pawb.social

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WTF are they smoking?

Would be nice if we could, but all I'm hearing from Democrats is buck-passing. As if the voters are responsible for the party's poor electoral game.

If you're unwilling to engage in political discourse because the tone is insufficiently defferential, then you're letting the sensitivity of your ego override your commitment to your ideals.

I think your issue is less about my tone than the fact that you have no response to justify why you think political norms should be prioritized over the lives and livelihoods that are threatened by politics.

popularism

Did you mean "populism" or is this a distinct term with a different definition?

Everyone wants a "trump" - even the leftists, they just want a "trump" who aligns with their ideology.

Actual leftist here, our ideology is that there should be no "trump"s. You seem to be talking about right-wing liberals like the Democrats, who explicitly reject populism in favor of legalism and bipartisanship.

You want a "leftist trump" - somebody who will trash the same institutions to get your way.

Again, if we got our way then no one person would be able to "trash institutions". Please stop projecting, we know that every right-wing accusation is a confession.

But - in a representative democracy there needs to be compromise and debate. The parties should work together to find paths forward.

This reads like an admission that the USA is not a representative democracy, as has been well established academically: https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

These norms are important though.

You can, and will, say that "nothing at all matters anymore because Trump doesn't care" and I hear you.

Please, do expand upon this acknowledgement that we shouldn't bother with "norms" when they are being so flagrantly ignored.

But I caution about seeking your own "trump" because the framework of our government is more important than the policies its passing over the long run.

For the third time, please stop accusing "the left" of sharing "the right"'s ideology re: authoritarian leadership. It's extremely transparent.

He was chosen by the people

America has never had democratic elections. Our electoral system is designed so that "the people" don't have any agency to resist the dominance of capital.

that's why I think democrats are voting for his nominees. They're upholding the norms and traditions as they have.

Is this an admission that the norms and traditions are bad, or an admission that the Democrats care more about bipartisanship than the threat that Trump's administration poses?

How would you know?

Can you personally confirm that ~90 million people aren't doing anything?

Why do you think Democrats keep voting for Trump's cabinet nominations?

You're not listening.

Whether or not one is complacent is entirely irrelevant when one has no agency.

Voting is a fig leaf that covers up how un-democratic our country is. It exists to keep you from taking matters into your own hands.

What centrist hypothetical? My argument is non-hypothetical and based in a question of agency rather than political orientation.

If the voted government was not legitimate than voting is not a process that legitimizes the rule then is it?

Whether it is actually legitimate or not is immaterial. The point is that people voted instead of rioting in the streets. If people aren't objecting then the government is free to act.

Voting is just one tool of many to try to improve life for as many people as possible.

Voting is a tool to keep you complacent by redirecting your ire from the politicians responsible and onto your fellow voters.

Could you finish that thought? It sounds like you're admitting that the Democrats are too divided among themselves to effectively resist the Republicans and that would seem to confirm my argument that the voters is this country do not have the agency to justify blaming them for the outcome of the election.

If there's only one option then the idea that we might have had a choice is merely a delusion.

Voting is the process by which governments legitimize their right to rule, and the USA has not had a legitimate government in my lifetime. If there were options then we'd never have been forced into a "choice" of bad or worse in the first place.

The question was which of the two candidates, Democrat or Republucan, would be the best (or least bad, if you will) in each of the elections, from President down.

You're fundamentally misunderstanding how elections work in this country. You cannot hold a refferendum on anything when public opinion can be manipulated so easily and the results ignored when they contradict the desires of the billionaire class. Elections in America are a popularity contest designed to designed to diffuse responsibility for the operations of the state from the parties that are responsible to the electorate.

Blaming voters for their choices when neither party ran a primary is just a trick to get the people fighting among themselves instead of demanding better from their supposed representatives.

Didn't say they were the same, I said that we have no control over what they do in our names

Rather, the parties and their owners control us as they have for generations, by owning the newsmedia and steering public opinion as they see fit.

Yeah, that's the problem. The Republicans are being influenced by rich assholes and Democrats are too busy blaming the voters for their failure to listen to them.

The question was never if Republicans were better, but if Democrats were good enough to override the Republican thumb on the scale.

As they should, because they (and the rest of the liberals) relied on a capitalist political party to save them.

Elections are and have always been popularity contests.

Democracy isn't for picking leaders, it's the process by which leaders absolve themselves of responsibility for their actions.

"Don't blame me, the voters put me here."

The fact that you're getting downvotes for this gives me little hope for the future of our country.

Balkanization is too good for the US.