AGI achieved 🤖
jsomae @ jsomae @lemmy.ml Posts 14Comments 1,385Joined 1 yr. ago
jsomae @ jsomae @lemmy.ml
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1 yr. ago
I suppose if you're going to be postmodernist about it, but that's beyond my ability to understand. The only complete solution I know to Theseus' Ship is "the universe is agnostic as to which ship is the original. Identity of a composite thing is not part of the laws of physics." Not sure why you put scare quotes around it.
sorry, I only have a regular brain, haven't updated to the metaphysical edition :/
Hallucinations aren't relevant to my point here. I'm not defending that AIs are a good source of information, and I agree that hallucinations are dangerous (either that or misusing LLMs is dangerous). I also admit that for language learning, artifacts caused from tokenization could be very detrimental to the user.
The point I am making is that LLMs struggling with these kind of tokenization artifacts is poor evidence for drawing any conclusions about their behaviour on other tasks.
Because LLMs operate at the token level, I think it would be a more fair comparison with humans to ask why humans can't produce the IPA spelling words they can say, /nɔr kæn ðeɪ ˈizəli rid θɪŋz ˈrɪtən ˈpjʊrli ɪn aɪ pi ˈeɪ/ despite the fact that it should be simple to -- they understand the sounds after all. I'd be impressed if somebody could do this too! But that most people can't shouldn't really move you to think humans must be fundamentally stupid because of this one curious artifact. Maybe they are fundamentall stupid for other reasons, but this one thing is quite unrelated.
Well that's a recent improvement. GPT3 was very bad at that, and GPT4 still makes mistakes.
Congrats, you've discovered reductionism. The human brain also doesn't know things, as it's composed of electrical synapses made of molecules that obey the laws of physics and direct one's mouth to make words in response to signals that come from the ears.
Not saying LLMs don't know things, but your argument as to why they don't know things has no merit.
You're right, I shouldn't have called it a riddle. Still, being a fucking thought experiment doesn't preclude having a solution. Theseus' ship is another famous fucking thought experiment, which has also been solved.
nice
This might well be true yeah. But that's still good news for AI companies who want to replace humans -- bar's lower than they thought.
The Rowan Atkinson thing isn't misunderstanding, it's understanding but having been misled. I've literally done this exact thing myself, say something was a hoax (because in the past it was) but then it turned out there was newer info I didn't know about. I'm not convinced LLMs as they exist today don't prioritize sources -- if trained naively, sure, but these days they can, for instance, integrate search results, and can update on new information. If the LLM can answer correctly only after checking a web search, and I can do the same only after checking a web search, that's a score of 1-1.
because we know what "understanding" is
Really? Who claims to know what understanding is? Do you think it's possible there can ever be an AI (even if different from an LLM) which is capable of "understanding?" How can you tell?
oh does he have a treatise on the subject?
The LLM isn't aware of its own limitations in this regard. The specific problem of getting an LLM to know what characters a token comprises has not been the focus of training. It's a totally different kind of error than other hallucinations, it's almost entirely orthogonal, but other hallucinations are much more important to solve, whereas being able to count the number of letters in a word or add numbers together is not very important, since as you point out, there are already programs that can do that.
At the moment, you can compare this perhaps to the Paris in the the Spring illusion. Why don't people know to double-check the number of 'the's in a sentence? They could just use their fingers to block out adjacent words and read each word in isolation. They must be idiots and we shouldn't trust humans in any domain.
yeah, we agree on this point. In the short term it's a disaster. In the long-term, assuming AI's capabilities don't continue to improve at the rate they have been, our corporate overlords will only replace people for whom it's actually worth it to them to replace with AI.
Can you explain the difference between understanding the question and generating the words that might logically follow? I'm aware that it's essentially a more powerful version of how auto-correct works, but why should we assume that shows some lack of understanding at a deep level somehow?
Transformers were pretty novel in 2017, I don't know if they were really around before that.
Anyway, I'm doubtful that a larger corpus is what's needed at this point. (Though that said, there's a lot more text remaining in instant messager chat logs like discord that probably have yet to be integrated into LLMs. Not sure.) I'm also doubtful that scaling up is going to keep working, but it wouldn't surprise that much me if it does keep working for a long while. My guess is that there's some small tweaks to be discovered that really improve things a lot but still basically like like repetitive training as you put it. Who can really say though.
what do you mean by spell fine? They're just emitting the tokens for the words. Like, it's not writing "strawberry," it's writing tokens <302, 1618, 19772>, which correspond to st, raw, and berry respectively. If you ask it to put a space between each letter, that will disrupt the tokenization mechanism, and it's going to be quite liable to making mistakes.
I don't think it's really fair to say that the lookup 19772 -> berry counts as the LLM being able to spell, since the LLM isn't operating at that layer. It doesn't really emit letters directly. I would argue its inability to reliably spell words when you force it to go letter-by-letter or answer queries about how words are spelled is indicative of its poor ability to spell.
You're talking about hallucinations. That's different from tokenization reflection errors. I'm specifically talking about its inability to know how many of a certain type of letter are in a word that it can spell correctly. This is not a hallucination per se -- at least, it's a completely different mechanism that causes it than whatever causes other factual errors. This specific problem is due to tokenization, and that's why I say it has little bearing on other shortcomings of LLMs.
You've missed something about the Chinese Room. The solution to the Chinese Room riddle is that it is not the person in the room but rather the room itself that is communicating with you. The fact that there's a person there is irrelevant, and they could be replaced with a speaker or computer terminal.
Put differently, it's not an indictment of LLMs that they are merely Chinese Rooms, but rather one should be impressed that the Chinese Room is so capable despite being a completely deterministic machine.
If one day we discover that the human brain works on much simpler principles than we once thought, would that make humans any less valuable? It should be deeply troubling to us that LLMs can do so much while the mathematics behind them are so simple. Arguments that because LLMs are just scaled-up autocomplete they surely can't be very good at anything are not comforting to me at all.
Machine learning algorithm from 2017, scaled up a few orders of magnitude so that it finally more or less works, then repackaged and sold by marketing teams.
Well yeah. You're preaching to the choir lol.