TheHiddenCatboy @ jhymesba @lemmy.world

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11

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576

Joined

2 yr. ago

Because Russia has a long history of propping up third party distractors, especially those who are friendly to Russia's causes, and another of their tools, useful idiots and bought-and-paid for bad actors (note: Mods, not accusing THIS poster of this, but you can't disagree such people exist and operate here on Lemmy and on other forums across the Internet) spread bullshit across the web to convince people that the Shitgibbon with his plans to directly enable his fellow authoritarian shithead to exterminate and/or subjugate the Palestinians AND his plans to let Russia do the same RE: Ukraine AND his plans to bring that same subjugation/extermination to LGBTQ+, non-Christian, minority, female, and non-Conservative populations HERE IN THE USA is somehow better than letting Team Biden/Harris have 4 more years.

You don't like me calling that out? Well, you can fuck right off because I'm not going to stop.

This particular poster seems to think I didn't read the article, and if I had, I couldn't possibly disagree with it.

My takeaways and disagreements:

• They say RFK Jr. wanted to ignite discussions on the political duopoly. (Then why did RFK Jr. withdraw and endorse Trump?)
• They claim to speak for independent Coloradans. (I am registered as an independent in Colorado. Who are they to speak for me?)
• They think Third Parties are the solution to our problems. (I do agree here and will be voting for Colorado's RCV option this November, and will vote for third party candidates for city, county, state, and federal offices, with Dems ranked appropriately, if that passes. POTUS, however, is still ratfucked by the Founders and their EC, so I'll be voting Lesser Evil there)
• This is despite wide variations in what they believe in. (Third parties don't agree on much!)
• Some of them endorsed Trump

  “If you really understand Bobby (Kennedy Jr.) and what’s going on, you have to suck it up,” Maxsenti said. “Vote for Trump and hope and pray, as we do, that Trump is truly a changed individual — and, now, that he’s learned his lessons from his first opportunity.” (You really don't think this is enough all on its own to earn a downvote on the article?)

This poster throws big words, likely without understanding them, and definitely incorrectly. The article was all over the place, but mostly confirmed what I already believed. There is a huge faction in the Third Party movement who wants Trump elected. Third party views are mostly single-issue magical thinking type views, unaware of how elections actually work in the US. They agree on very little with each other, let alone with the Major Parties, and they expect us to trust us with the decision making. And entertaining them, right now, will result in greater harm than listening to Andrew Yang who capped the whole thing off with "we're with Harris".

There isn't cognitive dissonance here when I interact with these posters, dear reader. There is a desire to point out that they are wrong, that their choices are dangerous, that you shouldn't listen to them, and that you should cast your vote for Kamala Harris, no matter where you are, how red or blue your district is, how much you disagree with Biden's decisions over the past four years, or even if you think there's a genocide being enacted in Israel, because frankly, either she or Trump wins, and everything you might accuse the Biden/Harris Admin of doing will be done in spades by a future Trump admin, not just to Palestinians, but to Ukrainians, Taiwanese, Muslims, Mexicans, and a whole host of American groups such as LGBTQ+, minorities, non-Christians of all sects, and women. Maybe go read a primer of Project 2025 (I won't subject you to the whole almost thousand-page document) and give some serious thoughts as to why these people are trying to get you to throw your vote away on a Third Party Candidate with Trump on the election?

The Trolley Problem is all about how there's frequently no good options in a scenario. People are gonna die whether or not you make a decision, and you'd be right to walk away from that lever if there were equal amounts of death on each track. But there frequently are not equal situations. Six people versus one person. A kid versus an old man. 7 Nuns versus 10 Lawyers. The person you love the most in the world versus the person you hate the most in the world.

Sure, you have to be discerning and look for any tracks that don't have something tied to them. That's why I mention that self-driving cars, thanks to their sensors, don't have to hit the bus full of school children or the SUV full of nuns -- they've seen the bus and the SUV and the idiot merging into traffic and the idiot on their phone and everything else due to their 27 different cameras and their LADAR and RADAR and so on, and to the advanced AI computer that can pay attention to all those sensors at once, and have calculated a path to escape to the track that doesn't have anyone being killed in the phony concocted examples of why AI cars are bad.

But in regards to the Presidency, there literally is a Trolley Problem here, and it IS as straight forward as you say it isn't. Come January of next year, one of two people will take the Oath of Office.

• Kamala Harris, who you say is a genocidal maniac who will enable the mass murder and enslavement of Gaza by the Israelis...
• Donald Trump, who himself has said is a genocidal maniac who will not only enable but accelerate the mass murder and enslavement of Gaza by the Israelis, and who plans on bringing that treatment right back to home for LGBTQ+, minorities, non-Christians, and women.

Jill Stein, Cornel West, Chase Oliver (seriously, I had to go look this guy up!), and whoever else promises you they can fix a Broken Washington won't be elected to that office. Period. End of line. All they'll accomplish is taking votes away from the major party candidate closest aligned to your positions, and ensure the other guy gets into office. The track of no genocide is an illusion, a mirage that fades the moment you look at it too hard. I know. It sucks. We all want more options for people to represent us. But those are the rules, and have been the rules for literally this country's entire existence. It sucks, but denying reality won't help. Come January, one of two people will take the oath of office: a Republican and a Democrat, just like it has been for the past 150 years, and even before, albeit with Federalist vs. Anti-Federalist or Democratic-Republican vs. Whig.

I'm going to vote for the person who will do the least harm to those I care about. I'm going to push and push hard for everyone else to join me in voting for her. I'm going to constantly call out this 'but third party!' stuff. Because for everything you have accused Harris of allowing, Trump will not only do that, but a dozen other hateful things.

No worries!

Overall, an engaging ad, and it speaks to me, a White (College Educated) Dude. My only criticism of the ad is it is too long. I hope they have a 30 second version!

The ads themselves don't cost much. Really, it's just a voiceover of scenes for every political ad. What costs money is getting it in front of voters' eyes.

Lots of money trades hands during election season, and it's all about getting ads in front of influence-able people and getting them to do the thing you want them to do (vote for me!!!!).

I do have my criticisms about the ad. It spends too many seconds articulating the message "White dudes can easily vote for Harris/Walz and you should to save the US from Donald Trump." It should be shorter, IMNSHO. But you'll be surprised at how little money goes to the designers and actors for an ad, compared to the metric fuckton of money that gets put into the pockets of advertisers and media companies.

Sorry, can't answer that question. I'll be Rule 3'd if I did. :3

At least we're not getting the 'vote third party' spiel. I'll never hold a person's opinions on the Dems against them. I just don't want anything done or suggested that will help Trump and his merry band of assholes.

That it's the advocacy group trying to hold Biden and Harris accountable for the continuation of the atrocities in Palestine saying this should make it clear. The actual people on the ground may feel strongly about Palestinian civil rights, they know where their bread is buttered and that the other realistic alternative in this election is "Orange Hitler", to use another poster's euphemism, is just plain horrible.

And the fun part is these aren't my words. These are the words of the "Uncommitted" faction that wants to hold Democrats' feet to the fire. They're saying that at the moment, there's bigger fish to fry -- a MAGAt movement that would make everything Team Blue has done look like child's play in comparison. So, Mr. Give Some Fucks isn't just arguing with me. He's arguing with the guys and gals actually advocating for Palestinians.

I can get behind this. Sure, we can criticise Team Blue for slow-dragging their feet on protecting Palestinians. Never said we couldn't. That said, there's clear consequences to a Trump victory. The Uncommitted have made it clear they grasp this and ask you to vote for Harris, even if they can't endorse Harris. Staying home, voting third party, or heaven forbid, voting Trump will just make things in the Middle East FAR worse.

Sounds good.

No. A losing campaign looks like 2021-01-06. That's what a losing campaign looks like. It ain't over until the fat lady sings. Republicans are disenfranchising known Dem voters, making it hard to vote for people they suspect won't toe the line, and have people out singing the praises of alternative Left-Wing candidates to everyone who will listen, taking advantage of the 'the Left has to fall in love, the right falls in line' factor. Check your registration. Check the last day to register and check your registration again on that day (at least, I'd check weekly until the last day). Make sure your address is correct and you have the proper things to jump through flaming hoops and moats filled with crocodiles because Team Pepe WILL throw that shit in your way. And make a plan to vote. You got to get your vote for Harris (and nobody else other!) locked in on or before election day. Deliver a resounding no to Team Shitgibbon!

Here's the receipts:

I'm not sure. Should I report my own post to get it in front of the moderator's eyes, or just keep these posts whenever we start talking about this poster.

Thanks for digging those up.

True, you might be right, but at least calling it out calls people like Jordon Lund to attention. I noticed after he caught flak from me, he started more directly challenging people like this poster. Maybe pointing out to him how this Socialist Berserker said similar but different things to one comment within minutes or even seconds of each other might just be the ammo they need to actually call a spade a spade. That said, if they don't, we have the receipts and we can point to them over and over again every time posters like this one spew this kind of malarkey. :)

Call that out! Report it. If they make it easy for us to see, we should sure call them out on it.

I do think you'll disappear after election day. If you're smart and you lose, you should disappear after election day, because we will point out once again, that like the past 59 elections, Third Parties won zip and accomplished zip. But I see you're looking forward to proving me wrong, and all you have to do is like tag me or some such shit, at which point, I'll call you a loser and/or a jerk and be done with it, even if the mods remove that post. You see, Mr. IMMA VOTE THIRD PARTY HUR!, my job is to only counter your bull until the election. Once it's done, I'm done with you, at least until the next election comes up and you start doing Putin's and Trump's (or whoever replaces him, hopefully) again. I could literally block you the day after the election and nothing of value would be lost at that point. The only reason I entertain you now is I don't want anyone buying your bullcrap here. Debunking your constant spew is a full time job, though, which is why I don't respond to everything you post.

Oh yeah, and I forgot to address the Trump thing. You see, if all you did was vote Third Party, I couldn't actually call you out because that would be your little secret. But you're not just planning to vote Third Party. You're here and presumably other places literally spewing out one post ever 18 or so minutes day in and day out screaming how Third Parties are good. Your third party vote is roughly 1/20,000 of the end result in a swing state. But peddling the BS that you can vote Third Party without concern? That could convince a lot of people. I'm trying to do my part to counter (not shut down, counter) your bull so that people in a close swing state won't subject everyone in this country, including my Black bisexual pagan goth wife, to Project 2025...

I will never be friends with people who want to subject me and people I care about to Project 2025...

Nah, I'll just tell you you've got a weird obsession if Harris wins, and rightfully point out that you led us to getting Project 2025 with your dumb vote if Trump wins.

Let's bring this dream into reality and vote.

So...I'm with you. Fascists are bad, and we need to make sure that Fascists can't hide their fascism when and if we get this country sorted and back on its feet. But I have questions!

• How do we ensure that we only catch Fascists? Your Magatmap seems to require an image, but no description.
• What stops me from cooking up an AI image of somebody I don't like with Trump flags and swastika arm bands and getting them submitted to your system?
• What happens if this guy was a Trumpet in 2016, but is apologetic about it now and swears he's no longer a trumpet?
• How do you ensure that innocent people not get caught up in your MAGAt Map?
• What are we supposed to do with the map afterwards?

Liberals have a good reason for questioning your methods here. We don't want to become what we hate because when you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares into you. We've seen it happen time and time again. And those of us who look at your suggestion wonder if we will become Nazis trying to fight Nazis your way.