huge_clock @ huge_clock @lemmy.world

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2 yr. ago

You keep saying “doing nothing” but I earned that money and now I am risking it in investments with uncertain returns.

Like what else would i do with it? Wreck the environment by spending it on things i don’t need?

It depends on the percent of the company you own.

I have no idea what point you’re trying to make.

Employers compete for labourers, so they have to raise wages to attract employers in tight labour markets. Offshoring has been going on for decades but it’s slowing down as developing countries are becoming more wealthy (ie: China)

Owning public stock is legally indistinguishable from directly owning a joint business venture.

The sources range wildly, some are just images and links to podcasts or articles. For example the “How many people did the Great Leap Forward kill” link just goes to a Reddit comment on r/communism where the OP just says “it’s fine… there were famines all the time in China!”.

You’re right that wealth is concentrated, but I was saying that the assets are collectively owned. For example I am a shareholder of Amazon, a publicly-traded company that Jeff Bezos owns a large stake in. So Amazon is “collectively owned” but each share gets one vote instead of one person.

These are bad links because they are from a biased source and not properly cited.

It’s directly deployed in stocks and real estate, what do you mean?

Most capital is “collectively owned” through public corporations, pension funds, etc.

You should check out "The Cold War Podcast". The housing episode is really good.

Listen, I’m a worker who saved money through my labour. Why should I not get to use my saved labour by deploying it into an investment?

“Fuck over competitors” or “be more competitive”? Competition is an important feature of capitalism that has lead capitalist countries to the highest standards of living in the world.

actual results may vary

Perhaps you have a source on the collective farms of the Great Leap Forward years in Communist China, or a URL that points to the collective farms in the Ukraine and how it made the farmers better off?

That’s not a feature of communism, it’s a compromise based on the recognition that private ownership produces more efficient outcomes at scale. According to the collective farming wiki: A Soviet article in March 1975 found that 27% of the total value of Soviet agricultural produce was produced by private farms despite the fact that they only consisted of less than 1% of arable land (approximately 20 million acres), making them roughly 40 times more efficient than collective farms.

No one wants to recreate the Great Famine (The most deadly famine in human history - caused entirely by communism and specifically collectivized farms).

There’s also Holomodor in the USSR which lead to similarly deadly outcomes.

Because in practice the line between capital and personal property is very thin. Can a car or apartment not be used to generate income in a modern economy?

When the soviets were in power they would force multiple families under one roof (kommunalka). Think 4-8 families sharing a kitchen and a bathroom. Each family was given just one room and all housing was considered communal housing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communal_apartment?wprov=sfti1

After Stalin’s death families began receiving single family apartments due to massive housing reform by Kruschev, but were hastily built and called ‘khrushchyoba,’ a cross between Khrushchev's name and the Russian term for slums. That by the way still leaves a multigenerational period from 1917-1954 where the kommunalka would have been the primary unit of housing.

The economically left in Russia are also socially conservative (unlike in most western countries).

I don’t need to debate you on this. The definition is there in Wikipedia. I’m not going to use pre-19th century terminology to describe the modern labour market just because it suits your political agenda.

Im not saying anything about pay, i am just stating what skilled vs unskilled labour is.