Lemmy needs more donations
hakase @ hakase @lemm.ee Posts 6Comments 317Joined 2 yr. ago
hakase @ hakase @lemm.ee
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this is still a double standard
Nope, it's not.
I spent the time to actually respond to you in good faith, but if you're not going to actually address the points I made in my post, I don't see why I should waste any more time with you.
No money for tankie devs until they stop modding.
The difference, and why it's not a double standard, of course, being the fact that I'm not going to your instance and asking for money.
Like, think about it for a second - imagine that I actively moderate .world or some "lib instance" where I aggressively ban tankie talking points, and that I also contribute a huge amount to the codebase of Lemmy. If I were to go to the tankie instances to ask for money that's going into my own pocket, I'd get laughed out of the room. There's no way they're gonna cough up dough for someone like that, especially with all of the horrible accusations they make about .world (transphobia, nazis, etc.).
And we know this is the case, because they're already rioting in the donation threads about Nutonic's transphobia. And he's already a tankie. If a literal tankie can't pass the purity test well enough to get their support, there is zero chance a "lib" would.
Anyway, there's no right wing content here that I've seen, but regardless, I absolutely support .ml users having their instance moderated exactly as they would want. That's what decentralization and federation is for, after all.
I also fully support the devs using .ml as their testing ground for new versions of Lemmy.
I do not support the devs of the entire Lemmy project actively censoring dissenting viewpoints on a tankie instance. They have a right to moderate their instance however they see fit, of course, but I also have the right to not give them any of my money because of it.
If the devs do want money from us, then, as has been mentioned repeatedly, all they have to do is stop actively moderating .ml themselves and let their mods do it for them, and I believe the donations would pour in.
They don't seem willing to do that (Dessalines, at least), and so they will continue to receive pennies outside of the Tankie Triad. And y'all would do the exact same if the situation were reversed, and you know it.
Simple as.
To quote a popular hexbear aphorism present in this very thread, "'Omg rude online' like there's no worse sin".
If that were to become the enforced position of the entire dev team going forward, I promise that I will donate, and provide receipts.
Probably not - for me it's more that the majority of my negative experiences on Lemmy have come on lemmy.ml, so the sticking point really is your involvement with it.
For a lot of other people in these threads though, it does seem like funding the hosting is the biggest deal. If the server costs for lemmy.ml are as low as you say, splitting off the hosting costs separately in some way (like taking donations directly from lemmy.ml that go into their own account separate from general Lemmy donations, for example) probably would see at least some sort of increase in donations to the overall Lemmy project. Especially if you made an announcement that this is what you were doing and maintained an official "separation of finances" position going forward.
If it wouldn't be too much extra work, it's probably worth a shot.
Person1, since you're new here, this is Cowbee, our resident tankie apologist/propagandist.
The most reasonable-sounding genocide denier and authoritarian regime supporter this side of the gulags. I highly recommend their alt's comments on Hexbear if you're interested in their more "mask off" persona. Also, remember the number one rule when interacting with hexbears: never directly engage them.
Edit: Here are some of Cowbee's Uyghur genocide denial comments, for example, if anyone's interested. Note the hardline tankie talking points, but couched in the classic Cowbee "reasonable" rhetorical style.
That's correct. People actively shilling for authoritarian regimes committing human rights atrocities, denying genocides, and aggressively silencing all dissent do not deserve it.
All they'd have to do is develop from behind the scenes and not actively contribute to one of the worst places on the platform, and I'd have no problem donating to them.
But they don't, and so I don't, and instead I get to listen to your whataboutism, literally the guy in the "and yet you participate in society" meme.
lemmy.ml is part of Lemmy development as it is used to test new versions before release, take performance measurements and have first-hand experience with the mod tools.
Then you really shouldn't be surprised that people don't want to donate when part of that support goes toward an instance that openly and aggressively supports authoritarian regimes, human rights violations, and genocide denial, and brutally censors any dissenting viewpoints.
If I stepped away from lemmy.ml it would make Lemmy worse and cause more problems for other instance admins.
The other option, of course, would be to run lemmy.ml in a way that doesn't actively piss off the majority of Lemmy users, but that doesn't seem to be a path you're willing to consider.
Honestly I'm genuinely torn about the situation. I've found such a great place here (outside of the tankie triad, of course), that as much as I disagree with your politics I'd probably donate anyway because of how great Lemmy is as a platform, if only you developed behind the scenes and weren't personally responsible for one of the worst places on said platform. As it is, as long as both a) lemmy.ml continues to be run the way it is and b) you continue to have an active part in that instance's abhorrent behavior, I can't in good conscience give you any financial support.
It’s easier said than done to separate the dev team and the mod team
That has to apply when deciding whether to support them as well, then.
Not to mention that the communities over there have moderators - the devs just insist on taking matters into their own hands, which is a significant part of what makes them so deeply unpopular. They're choosing to mod like this, when they really don't have to.
Most of Lemmy is fine - just avoid the tankie triad of lemmygrad, lemmy.ml, and hexbear and you should be good to go.
Edit: And maybe also the instances that haven't defederated hexbear in particular, since when they show up threads tend to go to shit, as you're seeing here, unfortunately.
Holy shit, from your comment history it does not surprise me at all that you think that.
There are also posts on lemmy.ca, discuss.online, mander.xyz, and dbzero as well, and those are just the threads I'm following with popcorn, not to say how many others there are that I haven't seen yet.
It’s just hilarious that they’re getting laughed out the door all over Lemmy after begging everyone for money, like, once again, my initial comment said. No conspiracies needed, just the consequences of their own actions.
It's not a conspiracy - it's a perfectly reasonable and expected route for the devs to take, and literally nobody said that instance owners were being strong-armed into doing this.
It's just hilarious that they're getting laughed out the door all over Lemmy after begging everyone for money, like, once again, my initial comment said. No conspiracies needed, just the consequences of their own actions.
And I'm sure the fact that all of the instance owners just happened to post within hours of each other is totally a coincidence, and has nothing to do with the devs reaching out to them and asking them to do so.
Because they're begging for money all over Lemmy and getting laughed at for it because of .ml censorship policies?
No u.
Oh wait, you can't, because even Reddit was smart enough to ban your asses half a decade ago.
Hexbears gonna hexbear.
Sounds like a really good reason to not make that incredibly important test instance so shitty and toxic then, but that's the choice they made.
Fine, maybe we're just talking past each other somehow. I'll give it one more try, and I'll try to be clear. This is the main point:
I understand your concern here, and I fully agree that if we were trying to control how .ml is moderated, then this would absolutely be a double standard.
My response is that we're not dictating the moderation of the instance, we're dictating that the developers of Lemmy should personally not participate in that moderation.
The moderation of .ml could be literally, exactly the same, with literally exactly the same bans, deletions, etc., as long as it's not Dessalines doing it.
The moderation policies are fine; the devs acting as a moderator for a tankie instance is not fine.
Once again, we do not want to dictate how your instance is moderated. We do not care how your instance is moderated, other than finding it generally distasteful. We want to make sure that the devs of Lemmy are not the ones doing that moderating.
Also, this is orthogonal to the main point, but it's worth mentioning:
You've put words in my mouth here. If .ml were a communist instance, I'd be fine with donating. It's the fact that it's specifically - a tankie, authoritarian, genocide-denying, human-rights-violation-supporting instance that aggressively silences all dissent just like the authoritarian, genociding governments they hold up on pillars instance - that I find so distasteful.
I would love it if the devs were actually communists.